ELM Scheme

[Strangelybrown]

Hello,

I have just listened to a podcast featuring a regenerative livestock farming couple, and they were discussing the changes from BPS to the ELM scheme. What are everyone's thoughts on the ELM scheme? Will it make farming fairer? Will it change things for new entrants? Does anyone have any ideas what activities will fit into each of the three tiers? On rented land will it be the land owner or the tenant who will be responsible for meeting the ELM guidelines?

If anyone would be willing to share their thoughts and opinions that would be great!

 

[farmerm]

What it won't do is replace the farm income that comes from BPS which is the difference between profit and loss for around half the farmers in the country.

In all likelihood it will fail farmers and it will fail tax payers but it will probably keep land agents in the luxury in which they are accustomed.

It will mean farming in the UK changes significantly in the decade ahead and like with all change there will be winners and there will be loosers.

 

[Campani]

Its worth remembering that it is not a change from BPS to ELMS. BPS has finished. ELMS is a replacement for countryside stewardship and other agri-environment schemes.

 

[farmerm]

Its worth remembering that it is not a change from BPS to ELMS. BPS has finished. ELMS is a replacement for countryside stewardship and other agri-environment schemes.

Still so many farmers who have yet to grasp this!

 

[Strangelybrown]

So all subsidies and environmental schemes will now fall under ELM?

 

[Brisel]

Hello,

I have just listened to a podcast featuring a regenerative livestock farming couple, and they were discussing the changes from BPS to the ELM scheme. What are everyone's thoughts on the ELM scheme? Will it make farming fairer? Will it change things for new entrants? Does anyone have any ideas what activities will fit into each of the three tiers? On rented land will it be the land owner or the tenant who will be responsible for meeting the ELM guidelines?

If anyone would be willing to share their thoughts and opinions that would be great!

1. An opportunity
2. That's just a fallacy. Life isn't fair! I expect landlords and their agents to try & exploit this as much as possible - that's not meant as an insult, just another income stream for them which provides my first answer!
3. Hopefully for the better, but I haven't seen any detail yet.
4. Tier one is farm level options, similar to what we have currently like nectar flower plots. Tier 2 is at a neighbourhood level for water management, farmer clusters etc. Tier 3 is for landscape level projects.
5. It depends on what you can negotiate and what the terms & duration of your current tenancy are. I can see a landowner in a Tier 2 or 3 scheme who pays someone to manage it for them. Supply & demand will settle where the balance sits.

So all subsidies and environmental schemes will now fall under ELM?

After 2027, based on the current plans, yes. Be aware that the word "subsidy" has a broad definition. The Aussies & Kiwis claim not to have them but the government helps farmers in other ways

 

[Greythundercloudys]

All upland and hill farms in Scotland will be f**ked for sure, unless you get a good payment for old permanent pasture and Hill land, if your get 30 grand the now and get 6,grand but 2027 were is the difference going to come from? Feed and fertiliser will need to be 100 a ton buy then, not nearer 400.

 

[Brisel]

Any info on the Scottish ELMS?

 

[delilah]

All upland and hill farms in Scotland will be f**ked for sure, unless you get a good payment for old permanent pasture and Hill land, if your get 30 grand the now and get 6,grand but 2027 were is the difference going to come from? Feed and fertiliser will need to be 100 a ton buy then, not nearer 400.

Having heard a Scottish politician on the radio recently I think you will be ok, he was very keen to make the point that he saw food production as a public good. England on the other hand, folks really do need to extract their digits and explain to Defra why PP should be getting all the dosh.

 

[Princess Pooper]

So all subsidies and environmental schemes will now fall under ELM?

In England, yes, other than possibly some specifics - mainly capital - for welfare, productivity, ammonia control etc, these will be starting sooner than ELM so not sure if they will then be integrated or kept separate.

 

[Greythundercloudys]

Hopefully Scotland will still have a bit direct payments, farming and being able to do other things on the farm in say Kent is totally different to an upland farm in argyll, so who knows.

 

[Strangelybrown]

All upland and hill farms in Scotland will be f**ked for sure, unless you get a good payment for old permanent pasture and Hill land, if your get 30 grand the now and get 6,grand but 2027 were is the difference going to come from? Feed and fertiliser will need to be 100 a ton buy then, not nearer 400.

Will any consideration be given to the fact that upland farms are more limited in their potential pro-environmental methods? What tier would tree planting likely to be classed as?

 

[Greythundercloudys]

Scottish elections in May, so lm sure the snp will have some news on it, like them or not, they do get the sfp payments out sharp, September last year, and lfa.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Will any consideration be given to the fact that upland farms are more limited in their potential pro-environmental methods?

Why?

I'm a lowland livestock operator within 20 miles of London and CSS and ELS have never worked for me.

What tier would tree planting likely to be classed as?

It depends.

Planting to strenghthen hedges or link up existing habitat would probably fit Tier 1 or 2. Planting most of the farm as part of a wider "new national forest" type regional scheme with other farms would clearly be Tier 3.

Don't ask what each would pay, they haven't started to reveal that yet.

 

[farmerm]

Why?

I'm a lowland livestock operator within 20 miles of London and CSS and ELS have never worked for me.


It depends.

Planting to strenghthen hedges or link up existing habitat would probably fit Tier 1 or 2. Planting most of the farm as part of a wider "new national forest" type regional scheme with other farms would clearly be Tier 3.

Don't ask what each would pay, they haven't started to reveal that yet.

What will they pay... a couple of quid per hour less than working in McDonnalds I expect...

 

[BrianV]

As the fishermen will now tell you promises made by this Westminster crowd just aren't worth the paper that it's written on, you can count on any alterations being far more onerous with less money & far more inspectors paid for from what was the SFP pot of money.
With obvious cuts in production that will come & more imports to take their place then Red Tractor would then seem to be even less relevant for us.

 

[flowerpot]

I can't see how planting a few trees/hedges/flowers is going to replace the BPS we get now. We are at that inconvenient middle size of farm in that it is big enough to take up all our time farming, but too small to have have woods and or rough bits of land, so it would be harder for us to simply take a field out of production for something else unless it was very profitable.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I can't see how planting a few trees/hedges/flowers is going to replace the BPS we get now. We are at that inconvenient middle size of farm in that it is big enough to take up all our time farming, but too small to have have woods and or rough bits of land, so it would be harder for us to simply take a field out of production for something else unless it was very profitable.

You are mistakenly believing that the idea of ELMS is to keep you in business......

BPS is ending and all pretence of supporting English farming financially along with it. ELMS is about delivering the 6 "public goods" and being paid, not necessarily as much, for that.

 

[spin cycle]

going to be a disaster i think.....food production is going to plummet as it'll have to compete with env. options just as lower standard imports turn up....you can't suck £3billion out of an industry without consequences

 

[BrianV]

You are mistakenly believing that the idea of ELMS is to keep you in business......

BPS is ending and all pretence of supporting English farming financially along with it. ELMS is about delivering the 6 "public goods" and being paid, not necessarily as much, for that.

That would be fine if all of the EU were following the same path as the delusional UK government, all that will happen is floods of imports will in time undercut UK farms & we will all have to get bigger & more intensive to compete, exactly the opposite to what environmentalists say they want!