ELM Scheme

[Brisel]

Hmm. The countryside HAS changed. Field sizes are bigger thanks to the drive for productivity (subsidised) and biodiversity has suffered where farms have moved away from a mixed enterprise model to something more specialised, with the aid of technology and chemistry. Some species have done well out of modern agriculture and land management pigeons, badgers, raptors, sparrows etc but many have not. Saying "well you wanted and paid us to feed the world" isn't really the right answer. Much of the admin burden has come from the Common Agricultural Policy and GATT/WTO trade talks, but also consumer demands & lessons learned from mistakes made e.g. food scares.

Change is inevitable and continuous. We need to adapt to that.

 

[Overby]

For sure. And if Defra have got peer reviewed scientific studies to show that not producing 1t of wheat in the UK (to our standards) and instead producing 1t of wheat in Russia (to their standards) and shipping it in is better for the atmosphere, then crack on.

The whole 'out of country, out of mind' environment sham is a disgrace, from the wheat example you use above,.to the same with coal, and don't get me started on the hoops we have to jump through re silage wrap and net only to see it shipped off and burnt elsewhere. Too much smoke and mirrors.

 

[jarrowsmith]

Reading through this thread has been very interesting, there are many sides to the conservation. Hopefully the changing subsidies will not spell out disaster for our nations hard working farmers! I am working on my dissertation which is focused on farmer's experiences with conservation schemes. If possible I would really appreciate if you could take a few minutes to fill out my short questionnaire (8 questions, ~5 minutes). Take care, Joe

https://qfreeaccountssjc1.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_cB04S4zUL0IhlQy

 

[Brisel]

Reading through this thread has been very interesting, there are many sides to the conservation. Hopefully the changing subsidies will not spell out disaster for our nations hard working farmers! I am working on my dissertation which is focused on farmer's experiences with conservation schemes. If possible I would really appreciate if you could take a few minutes to fill out my short questionnaire (8 questions, ~5 minutes). Take care, Joe

https://qfreeaccountssjc1.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_cB04S4zUL0IhlQy

Done

 

[Overby]

Reading through this thread has been very interesting, there are many sides to the conservation. Hopefully the changing subsidies will not spell out disaster for our nations hard working farmers! I am working on my dissertation which is focused on farmer's experiences with conservation schemes. If possible I would really appreciate if you could take a few minutes to fill out my short questionnaire (8 questions, ~5 minutes). Take care, Joe

https://qfreeaccountssjc1.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_cB04S4zUL0IhlQy

Done it

 

[BrianV]

Reading through this thread has been very interesting, there are many sides to the conservation. Hopefully the changing subsidies will not spell out disaster for our nations hard working farmers! I am working on my dissertation which is focused on farmer's experiences with conservation schemes. If possible I would really appreciate if you could take a few minutes to fill out my short questionnaire (8 questions, ~5 minutes). Take care, Joe

https://qfreeaccountssjc1.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_cB04S4zUL0IhlQy

Done

 

[BrianV]

Hmm. The countryside HAS changed. Field sizes are bigger thanks to the drive for productivity (subsidised) and biodiversity has suffered where farms have moved away from a mixed enterprise model to something more specialised, with the aid of technology and chemistry. Some species have done well out of modern agriculture and land management pigeons, badgers, raptors, sparrows etc but many have not. Saying "well you wanted and paid us to feed the world" isn't really the right answer. Much of the admin burden has come from the Common Agricultural Policy and GATT/WTO trade talks, but also consumer demands & lessons learned from mistakes made e.g. food scares.

Change is inevitable and continuous. We need to adapt to that.

Field sizes were made bigger many years ago with the express encouragement & financial help of the government of the time, farming is constantly changing at the whim of the government of the time, the one consistent is farmers in the main aim to leave their farm in a better state than when they started farming.
I suggest when are able you get on a train from Paddington to Penzance & try to convince everyone how bad things really are, don't put all farmers in with the vast estates mostly in the opposite direction (that will now hoover up the majority of these new "green" subsidies) who after following previous governments wishes are now considered to have "destroyed" the countryside!

 

[Brisel]

Field sizes were made bigger many years ago with the express encouragement & financial help of the government of the time, farming is constantly changing at the whim of the government of the time, the one consistent is farmers in the main aim to leave their farm in a better state than when they started farming.
I suggest when are able you get on a train from Paddington to Penzance & try to convince everyone how bad things really are, don't put all farmers in with the vast estates mostly in the opposite direction (that will now hoover up the majority of these new "green" subsidies) who after following previous governments wishes are now considered to have "destroyed" the countryside!

What has size got to do with it? Bigger farm = more acres in ELMS = more cash but the same per acre ceteris paribus. Are you saying that smaller farms haven't changed anything, just the big ones?

 

[The Seeker]

everything's going to the dogs nowadays, i like to keep a tidy place but i see it everywhere. A local put a postcard from 60 years ago of our valley up and it looked lovely coming over the hill the other day i had the same view, i just though what a mess we are making as humans. we have more tec and machines than ever before yet the hedgerows are full of litter and the business parks and industrial estates are nothing more than cheep eyesore roads dug up and pothole after pothole. I have 600 acres to keep tidy and almost do some cant even manage to do that with a back yard/ garden .... bonkers when you think about it. and we are the ones getting the blame.

 

[BrianV]

What has size got to do with it? Bigger farm = more acres in ELMS = more cash but the same per acre ceteris paribus. Are you saying that smaller farms haven't changed anything, just the big ones?

The difference if you drive through Devon or Lincolnshire is fairly obvious for all to see, size always matters or so I'm told!

 

[Brisel]

The difference if you drive through Devon or Lincolnshire is fairly obvious for all to see, size always matters or so I'm told!

That doesn't answer my question. You can't compare Devon to Lincolnshire, though you're far more likely to see bigger fields in Lincs. If you want true prairie style landscapes, go through Cambridgeshire. Far less hedges per acre than the south west & arguably where a farmer would have to work harder to get the same level of biodiversity.

Size isn't everything, so my wife tells me. Getting back on topic, biodiversity is mainly in the outside edge of a field IMO.

 

[N.Yorks.]

So the answer is plant a few token trees, grow far less of our own food & import more from the rest of the world whilst half the world is starving. If as the environmentalists claim the Earth's temperatures are going to rise then a whole lot of the Earth will not be able to feed it's self in which case as our country is one of the lucky few not quite so badly affected then surely we should be producing more to make up the earth's shortfall or is it a just case of sod the rest & each country to it's own

Well the true answer is fewer people really.

As a kid I used to go beating on a local shoot and did it for many years, I remember noticing that some years there were loads of hares and other years there were hardly any so I asked the keeper why that was and he explained that some years there are either more predators, more disease and/or less food availablity which depressed the numbers. The hare population fluctuated with the local environments' ability to support them. For me that was a massive lesson...........

The hares haven't grown and grown in number and crowded out habitat for other species, or modified their environment to the extent that their ability to feed themselves is reduced, they've been regulated by their environment to a certain extent. We are not over run with hares!

For a supposedly intelligent species, humans are actually quite stupid at times (myself included!).

 

[Dry Rot]

everything's going to the dogs nowadays, i like to keep a tidy place but i see it everywhere. A local put a postcard from 60 years ago of our valley up and it looked lovely coming over the hill the other day i had the same view, i just though what a mess we are making as humans. we have more tec and machines than ever before yet the hedgerows are full of litter and the business parks and industrial estates are nothing more than cheep eyesore roads dug up and pothole after pothole. I have 600 acres to keep tidy and almost do some cant even manage to do that with a back yard/ garden .... bonkers when you think about it. and we are the ones getting the blame.

If planners would simply insist on more trees planted to screen the business parks and industrial estates (and, yes, the untidy neighbours), the countryside would at least appear neater. Even a couple of rows can make an effective screen. Sometimes, tree planting is included in planning permissions, but do they follow through and insist the trees are actually planted? Not up here they don't.

 

[chipchap]

The government will struggle to maintain home food production without supporting the industry to an equal tune.

 

[Wombat]

What has size got to do with it? Bigger farm = more acres in ELMS = more cash but the same per acre ceteris paribus. Are you saying that smaller farms haven't changed anything, just the big ones?

In the last 30 yrs though have you seen any farm hedges being ripped up though in the name of agriculture? I cannot think of a single one i have seen since i was a kid. I have seen lots being ripped up for house, shopping parks and industrial sites though

 

[Brisel]

In the last 30 yrs though have you seen any farm hedges being ripped up though in the name of agriculture? I cannot think of a single one i have seen since i was a kid. I have seen lots being ripped up for house, shopping parks and industrial sites though

Lots ripped out in the 1950s-70s, but not since then. Not by farmers anyway. They have been protected since 1981.

Countryside hedgerows: protection and management

Find out if you can remove or work on countryside hedgerows.

www.gov.uk

 

[The Seeker]

I’d love to rip out some blackthorn hedges the thorns play havoc with lambs feet

 

[borderterribles]

In the last 30 yrs though have you seen any farm hedges being ripped up though in the name of agriculture? I cannot think of a single one i have seen since i was a kid. I have seen lots being ripped up for house, shopping parks and industrial sites though

Me too. As someone about to enter their sixth decade, I can honestly say that I have seen more hedges planted by farmers and landowners, than removed, during my working life.

 

[DrWazzock]

I was ploughing yesterday morning. Ploughing out “game strips”. It looked really tidy when I’d finished. A pleasant satisfying easy job. No forms, no workshops, no paperwork and it will be joined back to the bulk of the field and sown with barley this year. No rip off seed mix at £100 per acre that might or might not establish then can’t be sprayed to stop it getting smothered in weeds. It will take me all of 10 mins to drill it with barley with the rest of the field, not half a day raving the drill back out to do 2 acres when it’s dry as snuff in May . No, I’m done with that malarkey. Keep it simple and clean and work elsewhere with the time freed up.

 

[digger64]

I was ploughing yesterday morning. Ploughing out “game strips”. It looked really tidy when I’d finished. A pleasant satisfying easy job. No forms, no workshops, no paperwork and it will be joined back to the bulk of the field and sown with barley this year. No rip off seed mix at £100 per acre that might or might not establish then can’t be sprayed to stop it getting smothered in weeds. It will take me all of 10 mins to drill it with barley with the rest of the field, not half a day raving the drill back out to do 2 acres when it’s dry as snuff in May . No, I’m done with that malarkey. Keep it simple and clean and work elsewhere with the time freed up.

But what about your agent and manager ?