ELMS co-design submissions.

delilah

Member
For many on here, what ELMS looks like will have a major - perhaps defining - impact on their business.
Defra have made it clear, through their input on here, that they genuinely wish to hear everyone's views. Co-design as they are calling it.
Hopefully, then, many of us will be making a submission. I thought it might be a useful exercise for those who have submitted something to post it on here, to give encouragement to others to do the same.
Attached our submission. Note that I am absolutely not looking for comment on it. It is simply to get the ball rolling.
Could others who have made a submission post it on this thread, so that together they give folks ideas and inspiration to send their views to Defra.
TIA.
 

Attachments

  • permanant pasture.pdf
    56.6 KB · Views: 0

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Good stuff @delilah

Have "helped" a group come up with a submission, urge others to do so as they clearly don't have much of a clue (EFRA, not the group) about how to make it workable; it's worrying when you show it to your kids and they pick holes in every page.

It will come down to the individual

some folk clearly need instructions engraved on their toaster, and others want the freedom to be able to improve along with their landscape - so you ALL need to make your self a part of this codesign process...
(y)
or, option 2, play the blame game and plan your exit from farming
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
could you ask them to share here, so that it encourages others to make a submission ?
I can ask!

We felt it (draft grassland proposal) was really prescriptive, and we came to the conclusion that a better approach than "measuring changes" like simple (and flawed) soil measurements were missing the wider point - you need "outcomes" as much as they do.
Needs to be about "increasing landscape function" as opposed to leaving x amount of residual on the field or increasing SOM by x % in x years

they've been trying "best practice ag" for how many decades?
It only leads to resentment of boundaries and that's the wrong way to codesign a scheme,, "more of the same" I hear you say

Give farmers the right tools and the right resources and support and change is easier than grants and rules which have proven to be much less beneficial than "the coach approach"
 

Badshot

Member
Location
Kent
I'd like to see 3m strips round every field.
But only if we can manage it as we see fit to stop weed encroachment.
Not being able to control injurious weeds in margins gives me some major headaches.
It would also encourage me to leave hedgecutting either for multi year growth, or just longer into winter, but not if I'm going to get penalised for making marks on the margin with a tractor.
The rules have to get some realism with on the ground management, and also income forgone.
 

Flat 10

Member
Location
Fen Edge
For many on here, what ELMS looks like will have a major - perhaps defining - impact on their business.
Defra have made it clear, through their input on here, that they genuinely wish to hear everyone's views. Co-design as they are calling it.
Hopefully, then, many of us will be making a submission. I thought it might be a useful exercise for those who have submitted something to post it on here, to give encouragement to others to do the same.
Attached our submission. Note that I am absolutely not looking for comment on it. It is simply to get the ball rolling.
Could others who have made a submission post it on this thread, so that together they give folks ideas and inspiration to send their views to Defra.
TIA.
Have you a link as to where we do this please?
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20210214-090548_Firefox.jpg
    Screenshot_20210214-090548_Firefox.jpg
    93.3 KB · Views: 0

delilah

Member

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Defra have made it clear, on here and elsewhere, that they see ongoing input from farmers as being crucial to the development of ELMS.
The person to send submissions to would be Janet who took part in the ELMS Q and A on here:
[email protected]
Thanks. My mistake, I was confusing direct contact with DEFRA with submissions to the EFRA inquiry into the transition plan. The submission above has been used for both.
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
I'd like to see 3m strips round every field.
But only if we can manage it as we see fit to stop weed encroachment.
Not being able to control injurious weeds in margins gives me some major headaches.
It would also encourage me to leave hedgecutting either for multi year growth, or just longer into winter, but not if I'm going to get penalised for making marks on the margin with a tractor.
The rules have to get some realism with on the ground management, and also income forgone.

I have margins round all my arable fields, which I think are great for wildlife, latterly of just the fallow type, which has been perfect, in that they can be sprayed, and there's no worry if a wet spot gets a few marks on it, or a contractor accidentally uses it as an access route. When the margins were in the ELS and CSS it was a nightmare keeping vehicles off and weeds down. I wouldn't go near a scheme that was so prescriptive.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
I have margins round all my arable fields, which I think are great for wildlife, latterly of just the fallow type, which has been perfect, in that they can be sprayed, and there's no worry if a wet spot gets a few marks on it, or a contractor accidentally uses it as an access route. When the margins were in the ELS and CSS it was a nightmare keeping vehicles off and weeds down. I wouldn't go near a scheme that was so prescriptive.
The rules adopted need to be realistic about the practicalities of managing land. If not either they'll be flouted or they'll discourage scheme uptake. That's part of why we called for inherent flexibility in how farms deliver the outcomes desired.
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
The rules adopted need to be realistic about the practicalities of managing land. If not either they'll be flouted or they'll discourage scheme uptake. That's part of why we called for inherent flexibility in how farms deliver the outcomes desired.

To be honest for all the talk of 'measuring outcomes not just saying do this/don't do that' I can't see how ELMS will be any different from any other environmental scheme, because actual 'measuring outcomes' is virtually impossible to do in a fair, reasonable and practical manner. Are they going to inspect every acre of land and count how many birds and bees there are on it each and every year? What if all the birds and bees have buggered off to your neighbours that day when the inspector comes round? Do you get no money and he gets it all? Or more likely when they inspect his land next month the birds and bees are all back on yours so no-one gets any money?

All I can see ELMS being is a more all encompassing CSS type of scheme with lots of options and thousands of thou shall/thou shalt not rules to abide by. Actual flora and fauna outcomes will be irrelevant, as they have ever been in all environmental schemes, because there is no simple way for a bureaucracy to easily account for them. Adherence to a long list of rules is far easier to administer.
 

Vader

Member
Here another example of their stupidly.
I was planting 800m hedge along a footpath side.
Scrub Wood at other side always has fired lit in summer holidays by kids.
I did not leave the 2m margin next to the new hedge as I knew the grass / weeds there would be set on fire and kill hedge.
Defra insisted on a margin despite my warning.
Next summer 1/2 the hedge goes up in smoke ...

They always know better than the farmer .
 

Ryegrass controls stack up

  • 63
  • 0
1627981278438.png


Learning from the successes of growers’ black-grass control programmes gives a raft of integrated cultural and herbicide strategies that can also be used to hit back at increasing ryegrass populations, advises Syngenta Technical Manager, Georgina Wood.

“Key to that success is stacking up as many of those options as is practically possible in a farm situation.”

  • Delay drilling
  • Adapt cultivations
  • Increase spring cropping
  • Grow competitive crops
  • Prioritise pre-emergence applications
  • Stack pre-em herbicides
  • Optimise treatment timing and...
Top