ELMS co-design submissions.

[delilah]

Defra are currently emailing people who have expressed an interest in being involved in the co-design process, to find out what your specific field of interest is. Anyone wanting to have their say on the development of ELMS:

[email protected]

 

[delilah]

FWIW

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I've been banging the drum hard that the schemes must be flexible to deliver. Farms should be allowed to create their own plan for how to deliver the target public goods and helped to achieve them.

 

[andybk]

Defra are currently emailing people who have expressed an interest in being involved in the co-design process, to find out what your specific field of interest is. Anyone wanting to have their say on the development of ELMS:

[email protected]

address not found ! is any dots or dashes missing?

 

[delilah]

address not found ! is any dots or dashes missing?

Apologies, that's one I had an email from couple days ago it may be a 'no reply' one. This one defo works, email Janet and say you wish to take part in co-design.

[email protected]

 

[andybk]

Apologies, that's one I had an email from couple days ago it may be a 'no reply' one. This one defo works, email Janet and say you wish to take part in co-design.

[email protected]

thanks would like to comment all the best!

 

[delilah]

thanks would like to comment all the best!

Everyone who has posted on the current 'end of the road...' thread should be contacting defra to take part in co-design, it's the only way that ELMS will be amended to reflect the comments being made.

 

[andybk]

Everyone who has posted on the current 'end of the road...' thread should be contacting defra to take part in co-design, it's the only way that ELMS will be amended to reflect the comments being made.

uphill struggle against a powerful lobby that NE and red tractor and the like will put forward , still if we dont comment we have lost already ,

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

uphill struggle against a powerful lobby that NE and red tractor and the like will put forward , still if we dont comment we have lost already ,

We CAN be heard but only if we all try!

 

[delilah]

uphill struggle against a powerful lobby that NE and red tractor and the like will put forward , still if we dont comment we have lost already ,

Every time Govt gets it wrong we should ask the question "Cock up or conspiracy ?".
In the case of what ELMS looks like at present I honestly think it is cock up, and on that basis everyone should submit their thoughts.
If it is still as nonsensical by the time the pilots have been completed, then we will know that it is conspiracy. If we don't offer to help them out, we will never know.

 

[andybk]

Every time Govt gets it wrong we should ask the question "Cock up or conspiracy ?".
In the case of what ELMS looks like at present I honestly think it is cock up, and on that basis everyone should submit their thoughts.
If it is still as nonsensical by the time the pilots have been completed, then we will know that it is conspiracy. If we don't offer to help them out, we will never know.

If you walk onto any farm around here everyone knows what needs to be done , given an end result .I have the same conversations everywhere i go with sheep keep , Farmers with small shoots know exactly how to increase most species and are keen to do so same with traditional pastoral farms , I seriously think hmg give far to much credence to degree level advisories , with no or minimal practical experience . Just how can they get it so wrong ?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

If you walk onto any farm around here everyone knows what needs to be done , given an end result .I have the same conversations everywhere i go with sheep keep , Farmers with small shoots know exactly to increase most species and are keen to do so same with traditional pastoral farms , I seriously think hmg give far to much credence to degree level advisories , with no or minimal practical experience . Just how can they get it so wrong ?

@Chris F has put huge effort into applying for a small part of the 3rd round of the "Future farm resilience fund", £9M on offer, for TFF to deliver training online at a pittance per head cost. He up against a system designed around the usual culprits delivering their "training" on a 1to1 basis and saying they'll struggle to do it for £1000 per person trained.

Most of what DEFRA want delivered from the SFI is ideal for farmer to farmer advice and support with modest payments to those sharing their knowledge.

That's not how DEFRA think at present though.....

 

[Chris F]

@Chris F has put huge effort into applying for a small part of the 3rd round of the "Future farm resilience fund", £9M on offer, for TFF to deliver training online at a pittance per head cost. He up against a system designed around the usual culprits delivering their "training" on a 1to1 basis and saying they'll struggle to do it for £1000 per person trained.

Most of what DEFRA want delivered from the SFI is ideal for farmer to farmer advice and support with modest payments to those sharing their knowledge.

That's not how DEFRA think at present though.....

Although I only knew about the fund as a Defra employee who we knew pointed it out to us and asked us to apply. So there are those within Defra who get digital peer to peer learning. Which is great and a start. I also speak to Defra every week now. That didn’t happen two years ago.

The tide is changing.

 

[delilah]

Following recent threads on here i've had a go at updating my earlier submissions and putting some numbers to it. It's all 'fag packet' stuff, any corrections/ suggestions/ criticisms welcome .

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Following recent threads on here i've had a go at updating my earlier submissions and putting some numbers to it. It's all 'fag packet' stuff, any corrections/ suggestions/ criticisms welcome .

I like the idea. The length of "streams, ditches and lakes" will be much higher than the rivers though. I'll try to find a figure for you later if I can.

 

[steveR]

Following recent threads on here i've had a go at updating my earlier submissions and putting some numbers to it. It's all 'fag packet' stuff, any corrections/ suggestions/ criticisms welcome .

FYI, Severn Trent Water are looking at making their STEPS buffer strips against water courses 10-12m, as they have found 6m ain't working!! I would imagine the other water companies can say the same. More pesticides than N+P?? Interestingly Glyphosate is being detected at overly high levels in the ST region.

I can see your proposal soaking up a large amount of the funding, BUT, it is what is wanted to improve habitat and water quality, and will achieve real benefits. And most importantly it fills the KISS brief...

Hedge management @ 50p/m is not enough by a long way. Needs to incorporate 2m+ margins against the hedge which complements the "larger" hedge.

 

[delilah]

FYI, Severn Trent Water are looking at making their STEPS buffer strips against water courses 10-12m, as they have found 6m ain't working!!

That's useful to know. Have put them at 10m in that paper based on comments on here that it needs to be £1000/Ha.

 

[delilah]

Hedge management @ 50p/m is not enough by a long way. Needs to incorporate 2m+ margins against the hedge which complements the "larger" hedge.

What sort of figure does it need to be ? (I've doubled it from the 24p in the current SFI advanced standard, so they're not even close lol) .

 

[steveR]

What sort of figure does it need to be ? (I've doubled it from the 24p in the current SFI advanced standard, so they're not even close lol) .

50 quid for 100m... for all the annoyance and grief of conforming to management strictures? A lot more, but would depend on the requirements.

CS made it a requirement to have hedge management in their schemes, which is one of the reasons I left Stewardship (or more accurately, am leaving in 2 weeks time!)

 

[steveR]

That's useful to know. Have put them at 10m in that paper based on comments on here that it needs to be £1000/Ha.

I am not sure sure what value STW put on this expanded width margins as yet.

This might be of interest? https://www.stwater.co.uk/content/dam/stw/about_us/steps/steps-handbook.pdf