ELMS: Learning the lessons from history.

Tim W

Member
Location
Wiltshire
Even those of us who knew it wasn’t going to be a replacement for BPS cannot get enthusiastic for such a complicated and unrewarding scheme as the current proposals are.
To understand the effect the change from BPS to ELMS will have on a business you need to compare what you have been receiving from BPS with what you can realistically expect to receive from ELMS. For us it would be maximum 40%, but more likely 30%. Then you need to account for taking 5-10% out of production, with the costs for managing it for the prescribed outcomes, along with other costs like nutrient mapping etc. It doesn’t even really look like being a replacement for Mid-tier stewardship.
Agreed
I think that the key for farmers is to start from the understanding that all payments are going. From there we just have to look at what's on offer & if it doesn't add up simply walk away.... that's what most people do with a business proposition
 

Overby

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South West
In the early days it was always said that ELMS would be more attractive than Mid Tier etc. What has happened to that theory? ie at the minute you can whack in a load of AB9 etc and get a reasonable return, are all these options going to disappear? If so, ELM will do more harm than good on that front too as we've increased our Mid Tier not just due to the wildlife benefits but also the huge benefits to soil health. If the current Mid Tier options aren't to be replicated then it appears the whole thing is even more futile than anticipated.

Anyone any more learned than I?
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
In the early days it was always said that ELMS would be more attractive than Mid Tier etc. What has happened to that theory? ie at the minute you can whack in a load of AB9 etc and get a reasonable return, are all these options going to disappear? If so, ELM will do more harm than good on that front too as we've increased our Mid Tier not just due to the wildlife benefits but also the huge benefits to soil health. If the current Mid Tier options aren't to be replicated then it appears the whole thing is even more futile than anticipated.

Anyone any more learned than I?
This phoney government are relying on farmers being so desperate for help that they will sign up to this dogs breakfast however bad it will be, this will enable Bozo to crow aloud that the UK is then "world leading" in becoming greener!
If we all stay out then really their only major big idea falls flat on it's face & they will be forced to reconsider alternatives, if we go along with it I believe we are on a very slippery slope to becoming unviable as farmers.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
This phoney government are relying on farmers being so desperate for help that they will sign up to this dogs breakfast however bad it will be, this will enable Bozo to crow aloud that the UK is then "world leading" in becoming greener!
If we all stay out then really their only major big idea falls flat on it's face & they will be forced to reconsider alternatives, if we go along with it I believe we are on a very slippery slope to becoming unviable as farmers.
Many farms are already unviable it seems. It's only being public servants (tin hat on) by claiming CS etc that keeps them afloat.

Never mind, DEFRA have declared that they are going to make farming "sustainably profitable independent of subsidy" by 2027 according to the ATP. They just haven't revealed how yet! :rolleyes:

Giving us 50% grants towards precision farming hardware and bigger slurry stores (which many folk then use to simply intensify their operation even further) won't achieve it at all.
 
Last edited:

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Never mind, DEFRA have declared that they are going to make farming "sustainably profitable independent of subsidy" by 2027 according to the ATP. They just haven't revealed how yet! :rolleyes:
they have as far as livestock farming is concerned.
they are going to shut down livestock farming in this country and import animal products therefore making livestock farming in those countries sustainably profitable independent of subsidy from our government
 

ben__adamss

Member
BASE UK Member
I was with a couple of Forestry Commission bods yesterday, the general consensus was that ELMS was far too complex for too little gain, the weighting of the payments need to deliver much more to farmers and a broad and shallow approach, similar to the old Entry Level Scheme would deliver much more environmental benefit and be relatively easy to apply for without any need for consultants.
I thought the application was easy enough to apply without a consultant, but making sense of it all took some time
 

ben__adamss

Member
BASE UK Member
In the early days it was always said that ELMS would be more attractive than Mid Tier etc. What has happened to that theory? ie at the minute you can whack in a load of AB9 etc and get a reasonable return, are all these options going to disappear? If so, ELM will do more harm than good on that front too as we've increased our Mid Tier not just due to the wildlife benefits but also the huge benefits to soil health. If the current Mid Tier options aren't to be replicated then it appears the whole thing is even more futile than anticipated.

Anyone any more learned than I?
for our sfi pilot, it pays better than the equivalent css options, mainly due to the soil payments
 

ben__adamss

Member
BASE UK Member
Interesting, any chance of a rough breakdown of how it's working? (Just roughly, don't want to pry)
Welcome to pry;
Basic hedges, basic watercourses, intermediate arable land is worth around 26k to us. The equivalent CSS options is around 27k.
When we add in the advanced arable soils standard it put the sfi up around another 20k
 

Overby

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South West
Welcome to pry;
Basic hedges, basic watercourses, intermediate arable land is worth around 26k to us. The equivalent CSS options is around 27k.
When we add in the advanced arable soils standard it put the sfi up around another 20k
I wonder what's going to happen with Bird Feed, Bumble Bee mix etc. Sureky they'll carry on as an option somewhere? Even the likes of the AB8 grass etc should be heavily rewarded, like now, due to their huge and easily 'advertised carbon capturing abilities.
 

ben__adamss

Member
BASE UK Member
I wonder what's going to happen with Bird Feed, Bumble Bee mix etc. Sureky they'll carry on as an option somewhere? Even the likes of the AB8 grass etc should be heavily rewarded, like now, due to their huge and easily 'advertised carbon capturing abilities.
These are included in the arable land standard.
  • Sites for nesting and cover;
  • habitats rich in insects and flowers; AB8
  • sown winter seed; AB9
 

Make Tax Digital Software Poll

  • Quickbooks

    Votes: 34 16.2%
  • Sage

    Votes: 20 9.5%
  • Xero

    Votes: 97 46.2%
  • Other

    Votes: 59 28.1%

Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

  • 249
  • 0
Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
Top