ELMS plans unveiled.

[steveR]

There were plenty of farmers before subsidies there will be plenty after there gone........

?

 

[steveR]

In reality though, ELMs is years away. 2024 before any pilot schemes start and 27/28 before its rolled out. It’s what to do in the intervening years when BPS diminishes that should be our focus .
Mid tier looks an option again for me. Stick to whole field simple options , some like overwintered stubble aren’t to onerous or a 2yr legume fallow at £211/acre .
But, and it’s a big but, these schemes won’t replace the fact we’ve had BPS AND been able to crop the fields . Any new scheme isn’t replacing this, but paying for income forgone .
I think if I was a predominantly livestock farm, I’d look at options like the herbal leys at £125/acre payment and maybe reduced stock numbers to fit , and stop buying fertiliser etc.
Every farm and situation will be different , but don’t just think that schemes mean you have to re wild everything or let brambles take over.

My mantra in the past when we have had financial hiccups over my farming life is "Dog and Stick" it... Admittedly, we have some support payments in the background, but the herbal leys may well be an option on a lot of our more marginal land, along with bird mix and some pollen and nectar mixture.

I am having a meeting tomorrow and will be looking long and hard at how Mid Tier can allow this and how well will it fit my farming for the next 5 years! STEPS adviser has alraedy indicated interest in a 5 year 10ha block of herbal ley in 2021, probably following an overwinterd cover crop and/or OWS.

STEPS money will spread the risk from RPA messing up of having a wobbly....

 

[steveR]

Well I am resigned to the fact sheep will always disappoint me! If I can convince enough producers the price will crash maybe we will see a cut in production to slightly buffer the impact of no free trade deal with the EU.. I do hope to have sold a fair proportion of this seasons lambs before the real Brexit date... The bigger question will be what to do come next Autumn...

Go shooting.....

 

[steveR]

Well (IMO) history has taught us that the implementation of any new scheme under UK gov has been less than straight forward, it has problems and takes a good while to bottom out tech and practical issues. I have been offered a 5 yr Mid Tier contract starting Jan 2020, whilst I do the applications myself I do have an agent who will be far closer to the action and will get central updates from policy makers, so I asked the question you did "accept the contract or wait for ELMS", her reply is ELMS will probably still be in turmoil when my Mid Tier scheme ends, she also said ELMS is being too rushed as with everything at the moment, so whilst this may get it out in the market early, it looks and feels like a bureaucratic mess.

Hearing exactly the same reports from my contacts.... ELMS is a potential cock-up in the maing but its 4 years away so still time to get it right...

 

[steveR]

Not what I learnt from a recent TFA meeting and a local agent .

Pilots next year I believe....

 

[onthehoof]

Well I am resigned to the fact sheep will always disappoint me! If I can convince enough producers the price will crash maybe we will see a cut in production to slightly buffer the impact of no free trade deal with the EU.. I do hope to have sold a fair proportion of this seasons lambs before the real Brexit date... The bigger question will be what to do come next Autumn...

No - haven’t you been reading the other thread, all the arable boys are going into sheep production to bring grass into the rotation, and sheep are worth a fortune! Win win

 

[steveR]

No - haven’t you been reading the other thread, all the arable boys are going into sheep production to bring grass into the rotation, and sheep are worth a fortune! Win win

Bozzer is going to sort out an export deal to the USA for prime lamb for them.... or was that Uganda....

 

[Ted M]

im rapidly coming to the view that my building a farming business from scratch with the production of crops and livestock as a core enterprise has over the last 40 years been an utter and total waste of my efforts,

Feels like that here too. I'm not too concerned about myself but I have a young son who's mad keen and I feel like I need to steer him away from what he loves doing while he's still at school.
It all seems so wrong.

 

[Feldspar]

But, and it’s a big but, these schemes won’t replace the fact we’ve had BPS AND been able to crop the fields . Any new scheme isn’t replacing this, but paying for income forgone .

Yes, and yes again. I think this is the key thing I'm coming to terms with. Reading the new ELM documents has only confirmed my view on this. There is some mention of them adjusting payment rates to get the right uptake, and I think they will need to go a fair way above income foregone levels to get the 80,000 agreements they want (CS is at 20,000 IIRC). Looking at the documents I am not persuaded yet that it's going to be much simpler than the CS schemes that many have rejected. "We are also exploring whether establishing compliance with relevant regulatory requirements should be an entry requirement for tier 1." is something that worries me too. At the moment it's assumed you meet cross-compliance rules; you don't have to establish / prove you are meeting them. They are also talking of ratcheting up base regulation which used to be paid for, and also pushing further towards a polluter pays principle. This means we head towards a time when cover crops are a rule that must be followed to avoid soil run-off / pollution and buffer strips are mandatory to avoid pesticide pollution. This may be the right thing to do, but there's no doubt it's all heading towards a much lower income for the farmer.

Overall pot will stay the same, but split between more people (definition of 'land manager' will bring more people in) and a lot going for woodland planting projects (which were funding before). For those not wishing to tie up their land with a covenant placed over it for the next generation, those big headline per hectare figures are going to be irrelevant.

 

[DRC]

Pilots next year I believe....

Hope your right. How do you become a pilot?

 

[DRC]

My mantra in the past when we have had financial hiccups over my farming life is "Dog and Stick" it... Admittedly, we have some support payments in the background, but the herbal leys may well be an option on a lot of our more marginal land, along with bird mix and some pollen and nectar mixture.

I am having a meeting tomorrow and will be looking long and hard at how Mid Tier can allow this and how well will it fit my farming for the next 5 years! STEPS adviser has alraedy indicated interest in a 5 year 10ha block of herbal ley in 2021, probably following an overwinterd cover crop and/or OWS.

STEPS money will spread the risk from RPA messing up of having a wobbly....

I looked at STEPS this year, but i thought it was a maximum of £5k yr, to cover 5 yrs, with a max of 3ha.

 

[neilo]

Hope your right. How do you become a pilot?

You take lots of lessons and get some flying hours in. Good diversification plan.

 

[J 1177]

Even if we don't pay tax we spend in the local economy what will happen to all the business that we support machinery dealers fertiliser companies vets medicine/worker suppliers the list goes on have they thought about the wider implications of sun removal what comes round goes round it doesn't just get put into bank accounts and stay there

Mine goes into my bank account.......for about a week

 

[steveR]

Hope your right. How do you become a pilot?

I will let you know if and when, but AFTER I find out more...

 

[steveR]

I looked at STEPS this year, but i thought it was a maximum of £5k yr, to cover 5 yrs, with a max of 3ha.

There is/was a some flexibility on this option I believe... I would have punted for a bigger area, and see what transpired as an agreement offer.

But we will see what next years offerings are when they publish they Offer in the Autumn.

 

[steveR]

You take lots of lessons and get some flying hours in. Good diversification plan.

Ellesmere Airport?

There were enough around that area in 1944...

 

[Hesstondriver]

Page 9 (f): "Allow local stakeholders to have a bigger role in deciding how local priorities can be best delivered"

Local vegan/rambling/badger etc group in charge of your environment schemes?

i think i have used this almost word for word in my response !!

 

[Greythundercloudys]

Yes plenty farmers before subs, but back then folk had very little expense, they were poor then as well but things they needed cost very little also, fuel, fertiliser, etc. How can any one pay 100grand for a tractor it's crazy,

 

[farmerm]

Yes plenty farmers before subs, but back then folk had very little expense, they were poor then as well but things they needed cost very little also, fuel, fertiliser, etc. How can any one pay 100grand for a tractor it's crazy,

Before subs farmers were poor but so were everybody else!

 

[E_B]

Before subs, the world was a very different place. Oranges and apples compared to today's global market.