End of the Road for Small Livestock Farms?

Dave645

Member
It would seem this is simply piling more costs onto our manufacturing businesses making them even less competitive compared with the likes of China, great idea for the future
It would if it was just in the uk, but from what I understand it’s supposed to be an international system.
net zero as far as I know is a world wide goal of the Paris agreement that has teeth, in import tariffs, so even if China don’t play fair we can tarif there products with a carbon tax if they go back on there agreements.

The uk would then be at an advantage to get to net zero as fast as possible. Regardless of how fast other countries do it.
 

Hilly

Member
It would if it was just in the uk, but from what I understand it’s supposed to be an international system.
net zero as far as I know is a world wide goal of the Paris agreement that has teeth, in import tariffs, so even if China don’t play fair we can tarif there products with a carbon tax if they go back on there agreements.

The uk would then be at an advantage to get to net zero as fast as possible. Regardless of how fast other countries do it.
And China keep going as normal undercutting all 😂
 

Hilly

Member
It would if it was just in the uk, but from what I understand it’s supposed to be an international system.
net zero as far as I know is a world wide goal of the Paris agreement that has teeth, in import tariffs, so even if China don’t play fair we can tarif there products with a carbon tax if they go back on there agreements.

The uk would then be at an advantage to get to net zero as fast as possible. Regardless of how fast other countries do it.
Every time you fart send me a tenner for realising a smell , I get rich you feel better but your wife says you stink , get it ? 😂
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Because there wasn't enough money in the job to share it out!!
That's where the flexibility goes?

Works alright if you get plenty of bulk grass growth, but the weather can work for or against every bob spent on extras.

I think the summer dry patterns worldwide are having some interesting effects on beef operations, a "serious amount of acetylene" in alot of cases.

Sadly it's not the cows that should be going, but all the sh!t the cows were expected to pay for when the going was good!
That's the noose, and to keep the metaphor going our herds are what keep from dangling

Our cows are just a hobby but I couldn't be without them
 

Dave645

Member
And China keep going as normal undercutting all 😂
I do not see how, unless they find a way to cut carbon transport
like shipping etc, where a carbon foot print includes transport of goods, the same will be said for new Zealand lamb, when carbon foot print of its transport is added it will have to become even cheaper to compete with home grown produce, at some point, that even cheaper is impossible.
carbon taxes are designed to add the true cost to items, which is why it’s in the UK’s advantage to get ahead of the game.
I can tell you now all the different carbon stuff is designed to put imports at a disadvantage, just because of the likes of China, but it’s hard to demand it from others when your no better, or you would suffer under the new rules and taxes.
carbon Foot print is going to be a key way to price out imports from domestic markets and penalise countries not taking steps to hit net zero.
 

digger64

Member
I do not see how, unless they find a way to cut carbon transport
like shipping etc, where a carbon foot print includes transport of goods, the same will be said for new Zealand lamb, when carbon foot print of its transport is added it will have to become even cheaper to compete with home grown produce, at some point, that even cheaper is impossible.
carbon taxes are designed to add the true cost to items, which is why it’s in the UK’s advantage to get ahead of the game.
I can tell you now all the different carbon stuff is designed to put imports at a disadvantage, just because of the likes of China, but it’s hard to demand it from others when your no better, or you would suffer under the new rules and taxes.
carbon Foot print is going to be a key way to price out imports from domestic markets and penalise countries not taking steps to hit net zero.
do you really think the rest of the world will actually take any notice ?
They will tell any one what they would like to hear though to achieve their aims
 

Dave645

Member
Every time you fart send me a tenner for realising a smell , I get rich you feel better but your wife says you stink , get it ? 😂
I do, but carbon taxes are not about making anyone rich, they are actually about keeping us all alive. Global problems need global solutions no one person or country will fix or break it, sending food half way round the world when it can be produced easily in the country it’s going too, has a cost far greater than the product.
Case in point, the destruction of rain forest to produce beef for export, compared with a uk farmer that likely net zero already, why should that import have the ability to under cut that local production, when is has a massive carbon foot print, from the destruction of the rain Forrest to the transport it needed, the true cost not just its intrinsic costs. Fuel etc.
the carbon system is about bringing fairness and accountability to this broken system.
If done right local production should always have a small advantage.
 

Hilly

Member
I do, but carbon taxes are not about making anyone rich, they are actually about keeping us all alive. Global problems need global solutions no one person or country will fix or break it, sending food half way round the world when it can be produced easily in the country it’s going too, has a cost far greater than the product.
Case in point, the destruction of rain forest to produce beef for export, compared with a uk farmer that likely net zero already, why should that import have the ability to under cut that local production, when is has a massive carbon foot print, from the destruction of the rain Forrest to the transport it needed, the true cost not just its intrinsic costs. Fuel etc.
the carbon system is about bringing fairness and accountability to this broken system.
If done right local production should always have a small advantage.
But they pay the tax and still pollute , so no gain ?
 

Hilly

Member
I do not see how, unless they find a way to cut carbon transport
like shipping etc, where a carbon foot print includes transport of goods, the same will be said for new Zealand lamb, when carbon foot print of its transport is added it will have to become even cheaper to compete with home grown produce, at some point, that even cheaper is impossible.
carbon taxes are designed to add the true cost to items, which is why it’s in the UK’s advantage to get ahead of the game.
I can tell you now all the different carbon stuff is designed to put imports at a disadvantage, just because of the likes of China, but it’s hard to demand it from others when your no better, or you would suffer under the new rules and taxes.
carbon Foot print is going to be a key way to price out imports from domestic markets and penalise countries not taking steps to hit net zero.
Are China really going to clean their act up then ?
 

JP1

Member
Livestock Farmer
Are China really going to clean their act up then ?
Not yet. They're in the vanguard of their industrial revolution, they need more growth and won't stop building all the airports, infrastructure or securing their World dominance in manufacturing

And that's before any of the patsies and commissisons try to take them to task for what most accept was a lab leak that stalled the World
 

Dave645

Member
do you really think the rest of the world will actually take any notice ?
They will tell any one what they would like to hear though to achieve their aims
That’s always tricky, but we are not the only ones looking at carbon type taxes and food miles, if the EU implemented carbon foot print or food miles on all non European imports what would happen?
I bring up the Paris agreement, a agreement the majority of the world signed up to, about net zero targets we all signed up to and the systems within that, I think it’s 191 countries now.

To quote the agreement
Parties also recognized the need to strengthen the knowledge, technologies, practices and efforts of local communities and indigenous peoples, as well as the important role of providing incentives through tools such as domestic policies and carbon pricing.
Carbon pricing and domestic policies are big open ended tools to a lot of measures, local governments can take.
 

Dave645

Member
Are China really going to clean their act up then ?
Actually they are adding new renewable tech faster than most, it’s just population demands and old polices they had that is messing them up with all these coal fired power stations, I personally think they will play ball, because we can tax them one way or another if they don’t.
The other reason I belive they will is because they are taking climate change seriously at least they seem to be making great efforts in that direction planting Forrest’s etc.
 

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