End of the Road for Small Livestock Farms?

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
The diversity of breeds of cattle and sheep in the UK are part of our problem. NZ did away with all that under Rogernomics as it just wasn't viable. They run very few, clearly "fit for purpose", breeds.
No
Nz never imported all these different breeds in the first place due to biosecurity and common sense
I was astounded when i went nearly forty yr ago, i had never seen a large pure herd of herefords
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
Yes, for hee haw
:scratchhead:

Not sure your point. Certainly not applicable down here.

The economy had crashed, much worse than we've seen recently. Many Manorial estates around here were sold off as they couldn't afford to keep them. Land lay idle because nobody wanted it. Those who had funds (often not the land owning gentry you seem to despise) picked up farms for almost nothing. Many were Scots.

Then, from the 60s onwards working farmers competed to buy up any farms that came free. 2 neighbours of ours assembled farms over 1000 acres by the mid 70s, very big in those days. All paid for from working farm income.

Since then the value of farm land has become completely disassociated from what it can earn. It's now an asset class, not a production asset.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
:scratchhead:

Not sure your point. Certainly not applicable down here.

The economy had crashed, much worse than we've seen recently. Many Manorial estates around here were sold off as they couldn't afford to keep them. Land lay idle because nobody wanted it. Those who had funds (often not the land owning gentry you seem to despise) picked up farms for almost nothing. Many were Scots.

Then, from the 60s onwards working farmers competed to buy up any farms that came free. 2 neighbours of ours assembled farms over 1000 acres by the mid 70s, very big in those days. All paid for from working farm income.

Since then the value of farm land has become completely disassociated from what it can earn. It's now an asset class, not a production asset.
Its jockney rhyming slang
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
:scratchhead:

Not sure your point. Certainly not applicable down here.

The economy had crashed, much worse than we've seen recently. Many Manorial estates around here were sold off as they couldn't afford to keep them. Land lay idle because nobody wanted it. Those who had funds (often not the land owning gentry you seem to despise) picked up farms for almost nothing. Many were Scots.

Then, from the 60s onwards working farmers competed to buy up any farms that came free. 2 neighbours of ours assembled farms over 1000 acres by the mid 70s, very big in those days. All paid for from working farm income.

Since then the value of farm land has become completely disassociated from what it can earn. It's now an asset class, not a production asset.
Yes but they were working farmers who bought back then
Still plenty aristocracy owning land they got for free or actually stole
 
Location
Ceredigion
I know, just having a laugh
In the high country today , need my oxygen mask [emoji1787]
IMG_20210615_123643__01.jpg
IMG_20210615_123801.jpg
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
Doesn't need to. You add it to their exports when they land.
And just how would HMRC come up with the CO2 figure to put on the cost of each individual item from each individual supplier, a cost that is paid for by the voting public who rather like cheap goods..... its also would not be allowed under WTO rules, it wouldn't allow HMRC to apply different tarrifs to the same product depending on where, who and how it was produced.
 
OP writes and describes a small farm, all permeant pasture with poor access. Land you would apparently struggle to even rent out. Then states that owners have basically been doing it as a hobby keeping cattle for others to buy and finish. Owners complain that without BPS money they won't do their hobby as it's not economic to do so.

I don't want to upset anyone but we need to be serious here- we are describing is money being taken from the tax payer and now we are complaining that without this cash such an enterprise doesn't stack up? Exactly when or how has it ever stacked up, with or without the involvement of subsidies?

I am no livestock farmer but I know people who would consider 50 acres and 50 beasts as a few hours a day of work at most, something they would readily fit in alongside other enterprises or jobs. Not a hobby but an enterprise they would keep ticking over but not expect to become filthy rich from.

With all due respect, there needs to be a bit of a reality check I think.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
OP writes and describes a small farm, all permeant pasture with poor access. Land you would apparently struggle to even rent out. Then states that owners have basically been doing it as a hobby keeping cattle for others to buy and finish. Owners complain that without BPS money they won't do their hobby as it's not economic to do so.

I don't want to upset anyone but we need to be serious here- we are describing is money being taken from the tax payer and now we are complaining that without this cash such an enterprise doesn't stack up? Exactly when or how has it ever stacked up, with or without the involvement of subsidies?

I am no livestock farmer but I know people who would consider 50 acres and 50 beasts as a few hours a day of work at most, something they would readily fit in alongside other enterprises or jobs. Not a hobby but an enterprise they would keep ticking over but not expect to become filthy rich from.

With all due respect, there needs to be a bit of a reality check I think.
Agreed. Even at that scale it could be a full income (taking to slaughter and direct selling high quality, fully traceable, meat). Some who've gone down this route have had (relatively) large lumps of pillar 2 funding for their processing and retail facilities.

Subsidy shouldn't be supporting a hobby. Or should it if it delivers the public goods?
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Agreed. Even at that scale it could be a full income (taking to slaughter and direct selling high quality, fully traceable, meat). Some who've gone down this route have had (relatively) large lumps of pillar 2 funding for their processing and retail facilities.

Subsidy shouldn't be supporting a hobby. Or should it if it delivers the public goods?
This is the point, what do the government want ?
cos at the moment they seem to be saying what they want then putting those that are already providing it out of business
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
This is the point, what do the government want ?
cos at the moment they seem to be saying what they want then putting those that are already providing it out of business
But they've said in their "Agriculture transition plan" they want all farms to be profitable without subsidy by 2027.

They haven't given any clue how yet but they've said they want it! :rolleyes:
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Agreed. Even at that scale it could be a full income (taking to slaughter and direct selling high quality, fully traceable, meat). Some who've gone down this route have had (relatively) large lumps of pillar 2 funding for their processing and retail facilities.

Subsidy shouldn't be supporting a hobby. Or should it if it delivers the public goods?
Ha, farming in the uk is mostly a hobby
Mainly for the tax breaks, shooting, and subsidies
 

CHAP Webinar - Innovative tools to overcome the challenges of Regen Ag

  • 117
  • 0
https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.evbuc.com%2Fimages%2F186160299%2F486662465563%2F1%2Foriginal.20211115-160823


Applying principles of regen ag can incur a range of on-farm challenges. Learn how innovative tools & machinery can help with these hurdles.

This event will be held online from 1pm to 2pm on Thursday 2nd December 2021 so please block it out in your diary.

About this event​

Intro
This...
Top