End of the Road for Small Livestock Farms?

kfpben

Member
Location
Mid Hampshire
Thinking about it we have actually gone the other way. Formerly we were all arable but now-
A redundant haulage yard is a farm again and the unit I live on was completely knackered and since we started farming it the sheds have been tarted up and the cattle and sheep are back.

Financially it would probably be better to turn both yards into housing. But I’m a farmer and I enjoy being a farmer. As long as it pays I’ll carry on.
 

Bill the Bass

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
The harsh reality is the government (and now it seems even the devolved administration in Scotland) are hell bent on reducing cow numbers. They will do by fair means or foul so this ‘natural wastage’ is just nectar for the gods to them.

If your a high level man/woman in defra what’s not to like? Maybe next time they are on here for their webinar things they could be questioned?
 
The harsh reality is the government (and now it seems even the devolved administration in Scotland) are hell bent on reducing cow numbers. They will do by fair means or foul so this ‘natural wastage’ is just nectar for the gods to them.

If your a high level man/woman in defra what’s not to like? Maybe next time they are on here for their webinar things they could be questioned?

To those of us who give these matters serious consideration how does a reduction in cow numbers square up to a massive increase in permanent pasture ?

Maybe the "high level man/woman in defra" has some other use for PP than putting it through a ruminant animal ?
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
Or you could look at it from the point of view of the tax payer. Why subsidies a livestyle choice of farming 50 acres, when clearly in this day and age it isn't a business that can make a profit !

The Miners had the same reality check in the 1980's.

Harsh but true unfortunately.
That's fine but it's often the case that it is these small farms that provide exactly the sort of diversity the government pretends it wants with small fields & lots of hedges, the other option is vast estates often copying the US version in order to remain competitive, you pays your money & make your choice!!
 
Or you could look at it from the point of view of the tax payer. Why subsidies a livestyle choice of farming 50 acres, when clearly in this day and age it isn't a business that can make a profit !

The Miners had the same reality check in the 1980's.

Harsh but true unfortunately.

Many of these weren't concerned about a big profit, the ones I refer to have outside jobs, but they understandably will draw the line at using there income to subsidise the cattle. They are interested in the environment and have come from agricultural backgrounds. The BPS and small environmental payments have covered the costs of keeping the cattle.
They spend the money in helping to support the local supply industry from Vets to farm contractors.
This is not so much a lifestyle choice as the farm was inherited.
They have children who will be far better equipped to tell the story of sustainable agriculture even if they don't go into farming.

We need these people to tell the story of farming as they will mix with a far wider circle of people from different backgrounds and in different countries and often they have more time to get the message out.

I wholeheartedly agree that we should not subsidise lifestyle choices but this is a very different scenario and similar to the German system where many small farmers who work in factories also have a farm.
 

Bill the Bass

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
To those of us who give these matters serious consideration how does a reduction in cow numbers square up to a massive increase in permanent pasture ?

Maybe the "high level man/woman in defra" has some other use for PP than putting it through a ruminant animal ?
Are you implying I don’t take it seriously? I am 42 years old with 80 breeding cows - my main market is selling breeding bulls to other small farmers. I think I have more skin in this game than most.

I am however realistic and quite aware of the direction of travel the government wants for the industry - they do not want livestock, either in the hills or on permanent pasture, they would rather see trees and campsites.
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
Are you implying I don’t take it seriously? I am 42 years old with 80 breeding cows - my main market is selling breeding bulls to other small farmers. I think I have more skin in this game than most.

I am however realistic and quite aware of the direction of travel the government wants for the industry - they do not want livestock, either in the hills or on permanent pasture, they would rather see trees and campsites.
If history teaches us anything it's that Governments come & go & what they want changes just as quick as they do, it only takes a small shortage of food with fast rising prices costing votes before things will change again.
Never pays to make major changes in haste just because of a prat temporarily in number 10!
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
If they survived bse and foot and mouth today is a walk in the park in comparison so don’t go blaming it on brexit.
Well , in around about way it is brexits fault. If you were in the EU you'd get the subs.
Now your government gets to decide and they've decided to shaft you!
Their slogan during the brexit campaign was " we can pay our farmers properly" and now they're not going to pay you at all.
Karma
 

Hilly

Member
Well , in around about way it is brexits fault. If you were in the EU you'd get the subs.
Now your government gets to decide and they've decided to shaft you!
Their slogan during the brexit campaign was " we can pay our farmers properly" and now they're not going to pay you at all.
Karma
rubbish , small farmer has had a bloody bad time under subsidy they are all about gone anyway ! Subs have allowed the big to get massive , the removal will give the big boys a hard time now , most of them will have their entire workforce wages out of subs alone.
 

Will 1594

Member
Arable Farmer
Cars up 12%!!

Was speaking to a couple of used car dealers over beers a few nights ago... they are having to spend the first hour every morning just re-ticketing cars on the forecourt!! 30 years of trading and they have never had to do anything like it. In one case that week they had to go out and add £800 on the price of one motor. Its gone crazy.
Caravan man in village is same . Told him last year when COVID lock down came on to buy every one he could afford and then borrow , we had a divvy in two , bit of gamble but he had over 40 in his yard and a sweat on , but f me he sold them all even sticking an extra 1000 on some and more on others , now he is struggling to find them as every one wants them , but we think next year when folk can fly abroad job will go quiet , then buy on a depressed market when they all off load them to pay for foreign holidays 🤫
 

Bald Rick

Moderator
Livestock Farmer
Location
Anglesey
If history teaches us anything it's that Governments come & go & what they want changes just as quick as they do, it only takes a small shortage of food with fast rising prices costing votes before things will change again.
Never pays to make major changes in haste just because of a prat temporarily in number 10!

Or for Boris to get a whiff of another skirt ...
 
Well , in around about way it is brexits fault. If you were in the EU you'd get the subs.
Now your government gets to decide and they've decided to shaft you!
Their slogan during the brexit campaign was " we can pay our farmers properly" and now they're not going to pay you at all.
Karma
Karma ?
According to opinion polls the Brexit vote was split pretty evenly amongst farmers, it’s certainly not as if they all voted for, much like the rest of the country.
However a majority of around about 1.7 million voted for Brexit so even if every single farmer had voted remain Brexit would still have happened
 
Karma ?
According to opinion polls the Brexit vote was split pretty evenly amongst farmers, it’s certainly not as if they all voted for, much like the rest of the country.
However a majority of around about 1.7 million voted for Brexit so even if every single farmer had voted remain Brexit would still have happened
People were sick and wanted change
 
Just read this and I think it puts it rather well
Screenshot_20210612-122142_Chrome.jpg
 
People were sick and wanted change
The reasons for Brexit are irrelevant to this thread and have been done numerous times before on here.
However the post I quoted with the word “karma “ seemed to be suggesting the problems highlighted in this thread were farmers own fault for voting for Brexit, as I say, not all farmers voted for Brexit and even if none had the result would have been the same
 

Bill the Bass

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
If history teaches us anything it's that Governments come & go & what they want changes just as quick as they do, it only takes a small shortage of food with fast rising prices costing votes before things will change again.
Never pays to make major changes in haste just because of a prat temporarily in number 10!
I agree to point, but a lot of suckler cow enterprises are haemorrhaging cash, there is only so long you can go on on the ‘jam tomorrow’ food shortage gig.

Personally, money in cows has always done me and and this farm good in the long game regardless of government, but you have to start wondering when our own trade associations start proposing a carbon tax on beef cattle over a certain age.

It’s also worth pointing out that civil servants run this country not government - just ask the Scottish what happened with the climate change proposals they put forward for their beef industry. If you don’t know, the head of the Scottish civil service told them the only way for Scotland to meet its targets was a 30% reduction in cow numbers.
 

Make Tax Digital Software Poll

  • Quickbooks

    Votes: 33 16.5%
  • Sage

    Votes: 20 10.0%
  • Xero

    Votes: 93 46.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 54 27.0%

Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

  • 202
  • 0
Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
Top