Enforcement Notice- Grounds of Appeal

Hello.... another planning question, please;

If the LPA were to assume that the building I've put up (without permission) is for a dwelling, how can I convince them that it isn't?
I've installed a WC/shower, (the dogs roll in fox poo), but there is no kitchen, bedroom, lighting or heating. The main purpose for the building is storage of tools and garden equipment, (I manage the one acre site for nature) & there's a mezzanine floor, which I hope will provide an art studio/rest area.
What constitutes a dwelling?

Thanks, Dx

 

[Dookist]

It's a house on the sly. A home office with bathroom and enough space so you can have a sleep if it's got late. The planners will see this; the parish will see this. They won't like it.

What you need for managing an acre is at best a garden shed. You have a building with multiple levels, toilet and wash facilities.

Would you sleep in an unheated Butler bin? I spend all day here, I need a WC & somewhere to have a wash if I slip over whilst puddling the new pond. A mezzanine isn't 'multiple levels'...I

 

[br jones]

Would you sleep in an unheated Butler bin? I spend all day here, I need a WC & somewhere to have a wash if I slip over whilst puddling the new pond. A mezzanine isn't 'multiple levels'...I

sorry bud ,someone has dobbed you in ,once the planners say its go to go ,it goes ,nice concrete base by the way ,should of got a rusty silo and the window makes it obvious,wher does the toilet empty to ?is it an approved waste treatment system ? you have broken many rules and the council (along with many busybodies )will make you remove it

 

[Dookist]

Not quite sure what ‘managing for nature’ means, but then you talk about garden equipment, seems a bit contradictory. Sounds to me like just a way to try and circumvent planning ‘shower and wc because the dogs roll in fox poo’!. Somehow cant see the LPA buying that, I certainly wouldn’t.

Alchad....I'm managing the land mainly for pollinators. I collect and redistribute wild flower seeds & am also creating ponds to encourage wildlife. Fortunately, the land is unimproved and, save for annual mowing, has been uncutivated for 100 years, so it is already quite diverse. Mosaic mowing helps preserve the diversity, without which the land would eventually turn to scrub & invasive grasses.
Pollinators, which have evolved over millions of years and are the reason we have enough food to eat, are in severe decline and in some parts of the world, food crops have to be pollinated by hand as most of the insects have disappeared. It may be too late to reverse this situation, but I feel I'm doing my bit at least....

Unsurprisingly, the foxes love this peaceful area...The wc/shower were installed before I changed my mind about creating a live/work space in the silo...but it would be very useful if I can keep them, (if the silo can remain). I'm hoping that the planning officers will liase with me and perhaps agree to attach conditions whereby they could remain in situ, even if only on a temporary basis.

I'm nearly 70, and even if I manage to escape Covid, I won't be able to carry on for much longer. I just wanted to spend some time doing something that I enjoy & that I know is helping towards mitigating the effects of the decline of pollinators...a subject very close to my heart & which needs all the help we can provide, if we are to continue to survive.

I'm not trying to decive the LPA... but hoping that something can be retrieved from this collosal mess I seem to have brought upon myself. Dx

 

[Dookist]

sorry bud ,someone has dobbed you in ,once the planners say its go to go ,it goes ,nice concrete base by the way ,should of got a rusty silo and the window makes it obvious,wher does the toilet empty to ?is it an approved waste treatment system ? you have broken many rules and the council (along with many busybodies )will make you remove it

Yes... there is an approved sewage treatment plant in situ. This is previously developed land... not greenfield.

 

[Nearly]

People come in here for help & advice... there's no need for this.

Having been in the sights of the council a couple of times, I know you've got to learn to pick your battles, or at least have better weapons.
Good luck.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Alchad....I'm managing the land mainly for pollinators. I collect and redistribute wild flower seeds & am also creating ponds to encourage wildlife. Fortunately, the land is unimproved and, save for annual mowing, has been uncutivated for 100 years, so it is already quite diverse. Mosaic mowing helps preserve the diversity, without which the land would eventually turn to scrub & invasive grasses.
Pollinators, which have evolved over millions of years and are the reason we have enough food to eat, are in severe decline and in some parts of the world, food crops have to be pollinated by hand as most of the insects have disappeared. It may be too late to reverse this situation, but I feel I'm doing my bit at least....

Unsurprisingly, the foxes love this peaceful area...The wc/shower were installed before I changed my mind about creating a live/work space in the silo...but it would be very useful if I can keep them, (if the silo can remain). I'm hoping that the planning officers will liase with me and perhaps agree to attach conditions whereby they could remain in situ, even if only on a temporary basis.

I'm nearly 70, and even if I manage to escape Covid, I won't be able to carry on for much longer. I just wanted to spend some time doing something that I enjoy & that I know is helping towards mitigating the effects of the decline of pollinators...a subject very close to my heart & which needs all the help we can provide, if we are to continue to survive.

I'm not trying to decive the LPA... but hoping that something can be retrieved from this collosal mess I seem to have brought upon myself. Dx

rather than managing it for pollinators, wouldn't it be better just to put a few animals in there for a few days every so often?

 

[egbert]

Yes... we certainly do have a problem in the UK re: housing & it's not helped much by LPA preventing people from building on brownfield sites. Dx

I am afraid you mightn't find total sympathy here.
We - farmers who manage land for food production - often have our hackles up the minute anyone suggests their alternative 'land management' goals are better than ours in some way....and many of us see what you're doing as, at best, 'messing about'.
For sure, it's your land, but most of us would expect your type of ersing about to have no more effect than leaving a few field margins unkempt, or holding back on the flail hedging a tad.
Seemingly your site was farmland til you bought it, but you're calling it brownfield. hmm.

Equally, many of us have played the planning game, exploiting what loopholes we think we can....that's human nature.
Some watch their non-farming blow-in neighbours doing it even more so, without the 'excuse' of also still having large areas left undeveloped.
Out behind one of my sites, a quiet backlane has something like what you're up to in every field. Every entrance is stoned, and leading to a horsebox/field shelter/'tool shed' etc...all with satellite dish and chimney.
It p1sses me off no end to be honest.

Listening to what you're saying, and the case you're trying to build, sounds exactly like thousands of other chancers most of us are familiar with.

Good luck, but don't expect much hand holding.

 

[teslacoils]

I dont think any farmer has had trouble putting a shipping container in place for storage of tools etc. By their very nature, they are movable, waterproof, and lockable. You can get a second hand one delivered very reasonably.

Once you attach services, or put in stuff like toilet of shower then the ice becomes thin. Now, hiring in a chemical toilet from a local company who will maintain it - again, temporary and ticks all the boxes. And as you don't need to be on site maintaining an acre of nature for the winter months, you can just hire it for the summer.

It sounds like issue 1 is you took down an existing structure without consent. Then replaced it without consent - issue 2. With something unjustifiable - issue 3.

You want to take down a building? The ways are get consent, or look for the loopholes. The loophole for taking down is that weather has damaged it to an unsafe level and it needs removing for h&s. Presumable you took loads of pictures?

You want to replace a building? Then you needed planning permission. Did you get this? Sounds like no. Then it sounds like you need retrospective planning but this would still require you to justify your build, and it sound like a) you've not replaced the previous with anything vaguely similar and b) you've now pee'd off some locals, who've sent enforcement round, who've seen what's been done. They could be friendly as you like but fact is the hornets nest has been well and truely stirred.

Now you will have locals alerted, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that between then is enough nowse and £££ to be plotting to stop you even now.

So to avoid a mess, best ring @George from SJM Planning with a view to actually paying real money for real professional advice to get it sorted. Planning, especially now you've had "the telling" is not an amateur sport. Admit you're wrong, and pay someone to sort it out, while accepting their advice which may not be what you want to hear.

 

[Alchad]

Doorkist, I’m getting slightly confused. You said it was unimproved and ‘uncultivated for 100 years’, but then say it was previously developed land?. Also that it has a an approved sewage treatment plant in situ - is this something you put in, or was already there.

Perhaps you might care to explain exactly what the situation is, what was there in the first place, did you put the concrete pad and silo there. Seems to me you might get a more positive response and helpful suggestions if you were completely honest about the background, at the end of the day if you do go the appeal route it will all be examined in great depth by whoever arbitrates.

 

[GeorgeK]

Alchad....I'm managing the land mainly for pollinators. I collect and redistribute wild flower seeds & am also creating ponds to encourage wildlife. Fortunately, the land is unimproved and, save for annual mowing, has been uncutivated for 100 years, so it is already quite diverse. Mosaic mowing helps preserve the diversity, without which the land would eventually turn to scrub & invasive grasses.
Pollinators, which have evolved over millions of years and are the reason we have enough food to eat, are in severe decline and in some parts of the world, food crops have to be pollinated by hand as most of the insects have disappeared. It may be too late to reverse this situation, but I feel I'm doing my bit at least....

Unsurprisingly, the foxes love this peaceful area...The wc/shower were installed before I changed my mind about creating a live/work space in the silo...but it would be very useful if I can keep them, (if the silo can remain). I'm hoping that the planning officers will liase with me and perhaps agree to attach conditions whereby they could remain in situ, even if only on a temporary basis.

I'm nearly 70, and even if I manage to escape Covid, I won't be able to carry on for much longer. I just wanted to spend some time doing something that I enjoy & that I know is helping towards mitigating the effects of the decline of pollinators...a subject very close to my heart & which needs all the help we can provide, if we are to continue to survive.

I'm not trying to decive the LPA... but hoping that something can be retrieved from this collosal mess I seem to have brought upon myself. Dx

Try not to be put off by the range of comments. The beauty of this forum is that a wide range of view points are always expressed and they are all worth considering to help you understand the situation and how others will view it. Take them all on board but never take them personally!

 

[teslacoils]

It's not a collosal mess. But there is a process that should have been followed, and the fallout from not following it will be compounded by what, at first sight, looks to be an attempt to do something they will not like!

But you will sleep better if you engage a professional to sort it for you, by openly informing them of your goals and intentions and letting them deal with all the admin you'll now find required.

 

[teslacoils]

Because this forum gets five a week of "I'm after an acre to start a forest school / etc dreamers" who are really just after a way to build a dwelling.

 

[Still Farming]

Just say your doing a documentary on TV with Sarah Beeny or Kevin Mc Cloud and all will fly through????

 

[Still Farming]

Doorkist, I’m getting slightly confused. You said it was unimproved and ‘uncultivated for 100 years’, but then say it was previously developed land?. Also that it has a an approved sewage treatment plant in situ - is this something you put in, or was already there.

Perhaps you might care to explain exactly what the situation is, what was there in the first place, did you put the concrete pad and silo there. Seems to me you might get a more positive response and helpful suggestions if you were completely honest about the background, at the end of the day if you do go the appeal route it will all be examined in great depth by whoever arbitrates.

Location may help too?

 

[Dookist]

rather than managing it for pollinators, wouldn't it be better just to put a few animals in there for a few days every so often?

Thank you for the suggestion, but I really don't want the worry of looking after animals... I don't have the funds for vet fees. Years ago I had horses, pigs, cattle, etc... I know the work it entails... plus, this is not agricultural land.
I am doing something with nature & it makes me happy.... surely not too much to ask in the autumn of my life? Dx

 

[Dookist]

Location may help too?

Essex...

 

[Dookist]

Because this forum gets five a week of "I'm after an acre to start a forest school / etc dreamers" who are really just after a way to build a dwelling.

I already have somewhere to live...

 

[Dookist]

It's not a collosal mess. But there is a process that should have been followed, and the fallout from not following it will be compounded by what, at first sight, looks to be an attempt to do something they will not like!

But you will sleep better if you engage a professional to sort it for you, by openly informing them of your goals and intentions and letting them deal with all the admin you'll now find required.

Thank you... yes, I should have got my facts right...which I regret. I'd love to engage a professional, but unfortunately I have no savings at all and living on a small state pension. It really is a huge mess as far as I'm concerned as I just don't know where to start if I'm told to pull it down. Demolition costs money. Dx

 

[Dookist]

Try not to be put off by the range of comments. The beauty of this forum is that a wide range of view points are always expressed and they are all worth considering to help you understand the situation and how others will view it. Take them all on board but never take them personally!

Thank you, George. Dx

 

[Dookist]

Just say your doing a documentary on TV with Sarah Beeny or Kevin Mc Cloud and all will fly through????

I wouldn't mind, but the farmer next door has just put in an application for a 200 acre solar park which will come right up to my boundary. It's bound to be approved as he's already put in a 50 acre solar farm a few years back. My silo doesn't impact anywhere near as much on the surrounding land as all those panels... Dx