Enjoyable retort to a Vegan

[DanielBennett]

 

[br jones]

Excellent

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I’ll show it to my nephew.

Who attends Goldsmiths Uni.

 

[How much]

Vegans are anti using animals for human use , IE milk / or meat no so much water that is the forte of the environmentalist
However i know exactly where you are coming from with this as anti milk/meat bashing often crosses the divide either way .

it apparently takes 4 lts of water to grow one almond , NOT a Tree full . that one almond is used with i assume hundreds of others to produce 1 litre of almond milk and yet more water . i assume that pretty much is another litre of water for each litre of almond milk as the almond nut residue is filtered out .
most almonds are grown in California , that has had a drought for many years and the almonds and or milk need to be exported to us in the UK .
There cant be any argument about almond milk in any way saving the planet vs uk produced milk at least

 

[Henarar]

Vegans are anti using animals for human use , IE milk / or meat no so much water that is the forte of the environmentalist
However i know exactly where you are coming from with this as anti milk/meat bashing often crosses the divide either way .

it apparently takes 4 lts of water to grow one almond , NOT a Tree full . that one almond is used with i assume hundreds of others to produce 1 litre of almond milk and yet more water . i assume that pretty much is another litre of water for each litre of almond milk as the almond nut residue is filtered out .
most almonds are grown in California , that has had a drought for many years and the almonds and or milk need to be exported to us in the UK .
There cant be any argument about almond milk in any way saving the planet vs uk produced milk at least

yes but California is a long way away so that doesn't count

 

[Chris F]

it apparently takes 4 lts of water to grow one almond , NOT a Tree full . that one almond is used with i assume hundreds of others to produce 1 litre of almond milk and yet more water . i assume that pretty much is another litre of water for each litre of almond milk as the almond nut residue is filtered out .
most almonds are grown in California , that has had a drought for many years and the almonds and or milk need to be exported to us in the UK .
There cant be any argument about almond milk in any way saving the planet vs uk produced milk at least

There is only something like 16 almonds in a litre of almond milk. It really isn’t that almond based. Quite nice in a curry though.

 

[shearerlad]

There is only something like 16 almonds in a litre of almond milk. It really isn’t that almond based. Quite nice in a curry though.

So apart from water, what’s in the rest of that litre? The mind boggles at what it could be

 

[AM_Arable]

 

[roscoe erf]

 

[Muck Spreader]

View attachment 829126

Not sure about the statements that we can live without wine or chocolate. I need both to survive the hysterical rantings of Vegans.

 

[Old McDonald]

Vegans are anti using animals for human use , IE milk / or meat no so much water that is the forte of the environmentalist
However i know exactly where you are coming from with this as anti milk/meat bashing often crosses the divide either way .

it apparently takes 4 lts of water to grow one almond , NOT a Tree full . that one almond is used with i assume hundreds of others to produce 1 litre of almond milk and yet more water . i assume that pretty much is another litre of water for each litre of almond milk as the almond nut residue is filtered out .
most almonds are grown in California , that has had a drought for many years and the almonds and or milk need to be exported to us in the UK .
There cant be any argument about almond milk in any way saving the planet vs uk produced milk at least

Sorry, but you are misinformed. It does not take 4 litres of water to grow one almond. I grow a couple of hectares.

A single almond weighs on average 1.3/1.4g or say 750 to the kilo, giving 3000 litres of water at your figure. A reasonably bearing tree will produce a variable crop year to year, but say 8kgs of kernels. 24,000 litres per tree at 400 trees to the hectare (6x4m spacing) and that is almost 10 million litres to the hectare - bearing in mind also that only the tree rows will be irrigated, not the land between the rows. I will leave it to somebody else to calculate how much water in litres and mm that would be per sq m of tree row.

Obviously the industrialisation of getting that almond to the consumer is where a lot of water is used, but the same applies to meat. I have seen some horrendous figures quoted in the past in relation to the amount of water used from slaughter to plate, and meat uses more than vegetables. Best to not say too much about it I reckon, and I am thinking of having a nice fillet steak for dinner.

 

[How much]

Sorry, but you are misinformed. It does not take 4 litres of water to grow one almond. I grow a couple of hectares.

A single almond weighs on average 1.3/1.4g or say 750 to the kilo, giving 3000 litres of water at your figure. A reasonably bearing tree will produce a variable crop year to year, but say 8kgs of kernels. 24,000 litres per tree at 400 trees to the hectare (6x4m spacing) and that is almost 10 million litres to the hectare - bearing in mind also that only the tree rows will be irrigated, not the land between the rows. I will leave it to somebody else to calculate how much water in litres and mm that would be per sq m of tree row.

Obviously the industrialisation of getting that almond to the consumer is where a lot of water is used, but the same applies to meat. I have seen some horrendous figures quoted in the past in relation to the amount of water used from slaughter to plate, and meat uses more than vegetables. Best to not say too much about it I reckon, and I am thinking of having a nice fillet steak for dinner.

Sorry I dont know all the details I dont have the first idea about growing almonds , I got that figure from Wiki here -- almonds its based on californian production , the reason I looked at it was purley to find out how indeed what is almond milk.
Not to knock Almond producers or indeed almond milk or its use .
A few weeks later this post crops up here and it seemed relevant., figures can mean what you want them to mean good or bad .

I'm not sure how your choice of food stuff is being portrayed in Portugal but increasingly here in the uk the climate change/ vegan looby is making some of the population feel as though a choice of eating meat and dairy product is socially unacceptable in terms of its effect on climate change .
Clearly almost every one has an impact on climate one way or another
But as Almonds are mainly produced in california (by a very big margin) putting almond milk in your coffee as a way of reducing your climate change foot print hear in the UK as opposed to using cows milk, that here in the UK has a very good chance of being produced within a 100 or so miles of your home is a non starter in terms of transport alone , let alone water use whatever that true figure may be.

 

[ShooTa]

this came across my dashboard today...

• slowdownfarmstead
  Yet another rudimentary, moronic interview on our public broadcaster yesterday. This one, like most, saying we will save XYZ by being “plant based” or eating less beef. We all know the cows are f**king up everything. Dastardly beasts.
  
  This time it was some “nutritionist” from Toronto telling people they’ll help the Amazon by eating less beef. I tagged her in a post to suggest maybe there’s more to the story. She said something back, but I don’t know what because she then blocked me. Never been blocked before. Oh wait, yeah I was once. It was a vegan that came on my site and literally must have spent her evening going through each picture and putting up fun little quips like “too bad you’re going to eat him” and “filthy assassin”. I liked the assassin one so much, I did a post on it. She spread her hate and then blocked me. Seems to work like that.
  
  But back to the radio show. When the steam from my ears got too thick to ignore, I went on this woman’s instagram to see, if not eating the traditional foods that our ancestors ate, what she was supporting.
  
  Big surprise. Avocado toast. Supernova, chumbawumba ethereal superfood turmeric lattes made with cashew milk. Telling people paleo diets are bad because we need legumes for gut health and blood sugar control. Ugh. No thought to source. No thought to what she was supporting with every bite. The very foods that are destroying our planet. Nary a piece of beef or essential animal fats in the mix. Disconnect draped in a smug, superficial skim of supposed knowledge.
  
  No responsibility, rudimentary understanding, parroting ignorance. It’s the plague of our time. And the saddest thing is the poor f**kers that don’t know, that are swamped with just trying to make it in this world. They listen to this kind of stuff and then do try to avoid beef ‘cause the radio said so therefore, it’s gotta’ be true.
  ????Continued below...
  6h

slowdownfarmstead
????Continued: There’s a deeper agenda afoot. Reliance on importation, eating foods from strangers that do strange things to the land and animals, dripping in fossil fuels. Dependence, anonymity, false facts, the support of the system in steering people to the highly processed foods.. It’s a directed attack on our very species. On the biodiversity and life of our entire planet.
•
We must eat the foods from the farmers in our communities. At least in our own countries for frigs sake! Macaroni veggie cheez bowls, plantain crackers, and chicken breasts just aren’t going to do it. Not for the world, not for the humans, but for any living thing. Just ask your ancestors. They seemed to do alright.
•
If you want to read a great article in the farming and crop rotations that are leading to the tragedy in the Amazon, this is a great place to start https://rainforests.mongabay.com/0811.html
•
Alright, off I go, back to the woods where my cows eat and poop and live in abundant, diverse ecosystems where life abounds. Where things still make sense. Where truth still matters.

 

[kfpben]

Just back from an afternoon at Carfest South promoting farming on the NFU stand. We had c.1000 folk on the stand today (we had clickers to count) Every one came on with a smile on their face and plenty of children enjoyed the activities laid on. Certainly no anti-farming feeling in evidence. I take my hat off to the permanent staff- four hours was long enough. 3 days in the beating sun talking to the public would finish me off!

It was also good to see large queues for the many food stalls. That is apart from the 2 vegan food stalls that I saw- they seemed to have hardly any customers at all.

 

[shearerlad]

Good on you @kfpben for doing a stint on the stand. It saddens me when folk shoot down NFU for not doing anything but I know that’s not true

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Good on you @kfpben for doing a stint on the stand. It saddens me when folk shoot down NFU for not doing anything but I know that’s not true

If they took off their blinkers and took a decent look they would see what the NFU does.
Their rantings make them look as daft and misinformed as the worst vegans are.

It's really not up to the NFU to defend the undefendable - and there is enough of that going on around the planet to severely weaken the case for livestock as being the best tools for the task .

 

[Henarar]

Good on you @kfpben for doing a stint on the stand. It saddens me when folk shoot down NFU for not doing anything but I know that’s not true

Who has said the NFU don't do anything ?
could you quote the post/posts ?

I have seen many posts criticising the NFU and I have made a few myself but I don't recall a post saying that they do nothing at all

 

[Muck Spreader]

Who has said the NFU don't do anything ?
could you quote the post/posts ?

I have seen many posts criticising the NFU and I have made a few myself but I don't recall a post saying that they do nothing at all

It's difficult to see the NFU in the same light as the French farming unions. But I suppose it's the fact that UK farmers and their Union are somewhat seen as part of the establishment, not a potential threat to it.

 

[A1an]

There is only something like 16 almonds in a litre of almond milk. It really isn’t that almond based. Quite nice in a curry though.

it's got to be a lamb or beef curry purely for balance

 

[Old McDonald]

Sorry I dont know all the details I dont have the first idea about growing almonds , I got that figure from Wiki here -- almonds its based on californian production , the reason I looked at it was purley to find out how indeed what is almond milk.
Not to knock Almond producers or indeed almond milk or its use .
A few weeks later this post crops up here and it seemed relevant., figures can mean what you want them to mean good or bad .

I'm not sure how your choice of food stuff is being portrayed in Portugal but increasingly here in the uk the climate change/ vegan looby is making some of the population feel as though a choice of eating meat and dairy product is socially unacceptable in terms of its effect on climate change .
Clearly almost every one has an impact on climate one way or another
But as Almonds are mainly produced in california (by a very big margin) putting almond milk in your coffee as a way of reducing your climate change foot print hear in the UK as opposed to using cows milk, that here in the UK has a very good chance of being produced within a 100 or so miles of your home is a non starter in terms of transport alone , let alone water use whatever that true figure may be.

The "water footprint" is in fact considerably higher - and that is according to the California Almond Board!

The water footprint though includes everything somebody can think of that is in any way connected to the production of the item under scrutiny. The actual amount of water needed to grow the item to harvest (animal or vegetable) is much less, although higher in California than in many other places due to its lack of rainfall. Frankly I cannot see the point in anyone consuming almond milk. It is extremely wasteful and almost all water. If somebody wants to use it in oriental dishes as suggested on here then far better to take some ground almonds, or grind your own and sprinkle in the dish or mix them with a little water and pour in. It is very easy to make at home.

California produces about 80% of the world's almonds so there are rather large quantities of by product every year at the mills - which take the almond complete with hull (and therefore shell) for processing. The hulls are used in cattle feed, primarily dairy I understand, and the shells are used as bedding for cattle. So the vegans' favourite helps to keep cattle farming going. I think both hulls (high in Boron which is in short supply in Portuguese soils) and shells are best used as a mulch on olive trees. Not so easy to do on California's scale.

Vegans abound around the world and are like staunch religious people. They refuse to listen to anyone else's viewpoint. I think they make little headway here because there are so many people still living in villages with their little pieces of land surrounding the village and they all keep some sheep or goats. The cities must empty at weekends as the younger generation, with jobs, return home for the weekend. The Mediterranean diet is very high in animal products whatever anybody might try to tell you. Also very high in olive oil - it is poured over almost everything that is eaten. My wife and I prefer cows' milk and although we buy it in a supermarket, we only buy milk from the Azores - to where we intend to retire. Grass fed dairy and beef there due to a good year round rainfall and temperatures always well above freezing. We also only buy Azorean butter. The cheeses are very good too, but we do rather like Kerrygold cheddar. We both said many years ago that we will never use margarine and would consider death in preference to having to give up butter.