Environmental Schemes

[Lowland1]

With the bad weather in the U.K I am wondering whether it is worth drilling this spring and as such was wondering what is the best scheme to put a small farm into.

 

[onthehoof]

Remember you will be signing up for 5 years

 

[Lowland1]

That's a fair point. I have never looked into any of these schemes previously because I always thought that we would continue farming in one way or other on this land however if this year has taught me anything it's that it is very hard to do things part time every time I think I can get on with something it rains or something blows down. I am lucky in that I don't have to get a living from this land but it is still important to me.

 

[farmerm]

I have been just been offered a 1 year extension to our Mid-Tier agreement... Do I grab it or do I look at applying for a new 5 year agreement... Anyone else in the same situation? Has much changed in the mid-tier offering since 5 years ago?

 

[GeorgeK]

They have said anyone signing up for current schemes will not be disadvantaged if the new ones are better. However there is no guarantee the new ones will be better, in fact they could easily be a lot worse. In theory it makes sense to lock in now for 5 years, but there is an issue of whether we trust them to do as they say

 

[Still Farming]

Wetland area?

 

[steveR]

They have said anyone signing up for current schemes will not be disadvantaged if the new ones are better. However there is no guarantee the new ones will be better, in fact they could easily be a lot worse. In theory it makes sense to lock in now for 5 years, but there is an issue of whether we trust them to do as they say

I suppose the the fact is that we don't as a whole trust TPTB not to change the whole environment and support systems tomorrow, if there are Vote in it. Locked in gives a slightly better chance of knowing what will happen.

I suspect Bozzer will be lobbied hard by some Tory MP's for action now, and it what is the cheapest sop that can be offered to them and their voters....

Heard some twattish MP from Monmouth mouthing off on C4 a couple of days ago.... I suspect if some of his constituency had got hold of him, he would have been in the Wye, toute suite! But it comes back to Ministers can be persuaded that trees or cover crops over winter will "save the cities", that's where the money will go.

 

[steveR]

I have been just been offered a 1 year extension to our Mid-Tier agreement... Do I grab it or do I look at applying for a new 5 year agreement... Anyone else in the same situation? Has much changed in the mid-tier offering since 5 years ago?

Check the Prescriptions VERY carefully on any new offering...

They sneak new stuff in that is easy to miss, and it WILL catch you out!

 

[steveR]

With the bad weather in the U.K I am wondering whether it is worth drilling this spring and as such was wondering what is the best scheme to put a small farm into.

Simplified Mid Tier thing? 5 years as others have mentioned.

I suspect many small, part-time and "older" farmers will be looking at these options in an era of reducing profits. Got any stock that could utilise growth as grazing or conserved forage?

Farm with a topper and a drill.

 

[steveR]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/866957/Countryside_Stewardship_Mid_Tier_2020_v1.0.pdf

Page 14.

 

[Steevo]

Check the Prescriptions VERY carefully on any new offering...

They sneak new stuff in that is easy to miss, and it WILL catch you out!

I'm surprised anyone is considering environmental schemes for this reason and many others.

It's just another stick to be beaten with, another cost, more hassle, etc.

I get that it's worth £xx/ha but I question whether farmers know the "cost of production" associated with such schemes.

 

[farmerm]

I'm surprised anyone is considering environmental schemes for this reason and many others.

It's just another stick to be beaten with, another cost, more hassle, etc.

I get that it's worth £xx/ha but I question whether farmers know the "cost of production" associated with such schemes.

Whilst payment timings have been unreliable in the past few years... personally speaking the schemes have offered us a decent guaranteed return for relatively little effort or land taken out of production... Mind you I might have something different to say if we get picked out for an inspection and breaches are found, its easy to forget some rule and cock up somewhere! If we do a new 5 year application the tricky one is if we include "maintenance of traditional farm buildings" It forms a big chunk of our payment and whilst we have no immediate plans to convert the buildings 5 years is a long time...

 

[Wooly]

With the bad weather in the U.K I am wondering whether it is worth drilling this spring and as such was wondering what is the best scheme to put a small farm into.

Even if you apply now........... the paperwork needs to be in by May 1st................ any scheme will not start until January 1st 2021.

We might get a dry March yet.

 

[steveR]

Whilst payment timings have been unreliable in the past few years... personally speaking the schemes have offered us a decent guaranteed return for relatively little effort or land taken out of production... Mind you I might have something different to say if we get picked out for an inspection and breaches are found, its easy to forget some rule and cock up somewhere! If we do a new 5 year application the tricky one is if we include "maintenance of traditional farm buildings" It forms a big chunk of our payment and whilst we have no immediate plans to convert the buildings 5 years is a long time...

Yep, #Me.too...

Been sucking at the enviro tit since the Arable Pilot Scheme back in the 90's. I was happier in the past that the present over-complex schemes, but if that is a hoop that has to be jumped through, then so be it. I like the results I have got, as well as the wonga!

Mind, the plots have been poor this past 12 month with a poor establishment last Spring, and a couple or 3 areas up for re-drilling. BUT the scheme is up next year... do I spend a lot of dosh on seed for an option that will be gone in 12 months???

 

[farmerm]

Yep, #Me.too...

Been sucking at the enviro tit since the Arable Pilot Scheme back in the 90's. I was happier in the past that the present over-complex schemes, but if that is a hoop that has to be jumped through, then so be it. I like the results I have got, as well as the wonga!

Mind, the plots have been poor this past 12 month with a poor establishment last Spring, and a couple or 3 areas up for re-drilling. BUT the scheme is up next year... do I spend a lot of dosh on seed for an option that will be gone in 12 months???

That's why I am thinking go with a new 5 year rather than taking up the 1 year extension. We wont see ELMs for at least 3 or 4 years by which time we will allegedly be able to switch over if it is better and stay put on Mid-Tier for another year or 2 if it isn't...

If I go down the Mixed Farming package I am going to have to commit to AB9 winterbird food on top of our existing options, I think on about 3.5acres. I am going to have to give that some though about where that I can make that work...

Anyone doing AB9 successfully at present? Tips and tricks to it....? 1 year or 2 year mix? The sites I would be considering are currently not cropped "temporary" grass with a seedbank of creeping thistle...

 

[steveR]

That's why I am thinking go with a new 5 year rather than taking up the 1 year extension. We wont see ELMs for at least 3 or 4 years by which time we will allegedly be able to switch over if it is better and stay put on Mid-Tier for another year or 2 if it isn't...

If I go down the Mixed Farming package I am going to have to commit to AB9 winterbird food on top of our existing options, I think on about 3.5acres. I am going to have to give that some though about where that I can make that work...

Anyone doing AB9 successfully at present? Tips and tricks to it....? 1 year or 2 year mix? The sites I would be considering are currently not cropped "temporary" grass with a seedbank of creeping thistle...

Must say I was thinking some bigger, whole field areas of this, if I can agree the right locations.

AB9 after AB9...? Should work in the right location with enough time for a good kill, then a light tickle, stale seedbed, Glyphosate and back into AB9...

 

[farmerm]

Must say I was thinking some bigger, whole field areas of this, if I can agree the right locations.

AB9 after AB9...? Should work in the right location with enough time for a good kill, then a light tickle, stale seedbed, Glyphosate and back into AB9...

I am trying to picture what standing crop and crop residues might need dealing with before any cultivations can be done....

Is it going to need topping? then plough, powerharrow, leave to chit, Glyphosate, 14+days combi drill (when rain forecast) roll, cross fingers...

what happens if we loose Glyphosate...

 

[Chris F]

Remember you will be signing up for 5 years

David Kennedy, ELMs leader said you would be able to swap from these schemes to ELMs at OFC. But you may want to put exactly this question to him when Defra are next doing a Q and A on here.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

That's why I am thinking go with a new 5 year rather than taking up the 1 year extension. We wont see ELMs for at least 3 or 4 years by which time we will allegedly be able to switch over if it is better and stay put on Mid-Tier for another year or 2 if it isn't...

If I go down the Mixed Farming package I am going to have to commit to AB9 winterbird food on top of our existing options, I think on about 3.5acres. I am going to have to give that some though about where that I can make that work...

Anyone doing AB9 successfully at present? Tips and tricks to it....? 1 year or 2 year mix? The sites I would be considering are currently not cropped "temporary" grass with a seedbank of creeping thistle...

6ha AB9 here, works quite well. Usually use 2 year mix with Kale, flail down old mix and glyphosate regrowth, then work top and spray again pre drilling. Don't normally plough as dries out on our land. Have found the later drilled, the cleaner it is, and better Kale establishment, just try and drill when rained / forecast.

 

[farmerm]

6ha AB9 here, works quite well. Usually use 2 year mix with Kale, flail down old mix and glyphosate regrowth, then work top and spray again pre drilling. Don't normally plough as dries out on our land. Have found the later drilled, the cleaner it is, and better Kale establishment, just try and drill when rained / forecast.

what drill do you use