Enzo and Heptavac....??

Jimdog1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
It all seems a bit "suck and see" on timings, as is the use of LA in a flock in a storm!

My vet was of the view it was worth a few quid but there was nothing concrete, and there was no quantified evidence... However user feedback, was that it's worth doing...

I felt from a lot of reading up, that the LA showed some benefit as I was seeing live/dead lambs and a few weaker lambs (who survived) which might have been the result of the LA from 4r weeks before. Without maybe more deaths...??
Always get a handful abort before lambing gets going but was noticeably more last year. Took fresh foetus to LVA and got a diagnosis there and then. No toxo found. Jabbed with alamycin and repeated 21 days later as ewes began aborting again. Be interesting to see how this year starts.......
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
Always get a handful abort before lambing gets going but was noticeably more last year. Took fresh foetus to LVA and got a diagnosis there and then. No toxo found. Jabbed with alamycin and repeated 21 days later as ewes began aborting again. Be interesting to see how this year starts.......
Similiar to my experience.

And impossible to quantify the real benefit last year?? Hence my jabbing BEFORE the problems arrive... I hope. 🤞
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
Personally, I would, just for this year. The vaccine is incredibly effective at stopping new infections, but some previously infected will still abort apparently.
Economically, you don’t need to save many lambs to pay for the cost of it. Ethically, you are treating established infection this year. No doubt some vets might argue with that one though, being under pressure to reduce AB use.
Blood test on each animal....? Maybe DEFRA will cover the cost?

No? Jab AB then. As you say, a saved lamb will cover a bootle or two of LA easily...!!
 
Back to the question- I can’t see any reason why you can’t do both the same day apart from the fact that Heptavac seems a bit stressful to ewes they often are a bit steady a day or two after being done
 

Mc115reed

Member
Livestock Farmer
I can’t see why you wouldn’t be able too do them at the same time but your way too early with both if your just scanning…

but here’s my two pence anyways not that anyone asked…

when I had enzo about 4 years ago vet advice was jab with LA ideally 2 weeks pre-lambing or as soon as you realise you have a problem… I was the latter… we then jabbed everything that was left too lamb with LA again 20 days later and we had no more abortions but still had a lot of dopey useless lambs that didn’t even want too try and that you wished would just hurry up and die… actually think enzo is more soul destroying than toxo for that reason…

vet then said too LA 2 weeks pre lambing the following year but we didn’t because I was too busy with other things and we just vaccinated in summer and hoped and prayed and we had no abortions and lambs were thriving out of ewes too
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
I can’t see why you wouldn’t be able too do them at the same time but your way too early with both if your just scanning…

but here’s my two pence anyways not that anyone asked…

when I had enzo about 4 years ago vet advice was jab with LA ideally 2 weeks pre-lambing or as soon as you realise you have a problem… I was the latter… we then jabbed everything that was left too lamb with LA again 20 days later and we had no more abortions but still had a lot of dopey useless lambs that didn’t even want too try and that you wished would just hurry up and die… actually think enzo is more soul destroying than toxo for that reason…

vet then said too LA 2 weeks pre lambing the following year but we didn’t because I was too busy with other things and we just vaccinated in summer and hoped and prayed and we had no abortions and lambs were thriving out of ewes too
I agree, way too soon for doing scan and Hep, but might go for scan and AB after a chat with Vet... I was advised that jabbing for AB should be done fairly early on in our case.

This still leaves time for a 2nd AB...

I have to say, that there were no useless lambs as such really, a couple who were small, but went on, probably from the 2-3 single live lamb from twins.
 

Mc115reed

Member
Livestock Farmer
I agree, way too soon for doing scan and Hep, but might go for scan and AB after a chat with Vet... I was advised that jabbing for AB should be done fairly early on in our case.

This still leaves time for a 2nd AB...

I have to say, that there were no useless lambs as such really, a couple who were small, but went on, probably from the 2-3 single live lamb from twins.
You were lucky then those small weak useless lambs are enough too break anyone when you get like 30 of them and spent all day trying to get them going and you leave them alone for half hour and come back and they’re dead.. had about 10 in my kitchen at one point 🤦‍♂️
 

Bald n Grumpy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Can easily see a crow carting material a fair way, and something like a buzzard or kite, could pick up a small carcass easily enough and go a long way :(
Went to a talk our vet's did on it , chap there had been through it in with his closed pedigree flock, closed except for the orphan lamb he'd taken off a neighbour as a favor.
 

Estate fencing.

Member
Livestock Farmer
You were lucky then those small weak useless lambs are enough too break anyone when you get like 30 of them and spent all day trying to get them going and you leave them alone for half hour and come back and they’re dead.. had about 10 in my kitchen at one point 🤦‍♂️
I was in a good mood until i read that and started to think about the problems at lambing. If sheep had a 12 month gestation they would be long extinct by now. 😂
 

Mc115reed

Member
Livestock Farmer
I was in a good mood until i read that and started to think about the problems at lambing. If sheep had a 12 month gestation they would be long extinct by now. 😂
I opened my lambing shed door yesterday at 5am too 11 lambs, 1 ewe mothering the f**king lot of them… took me until lunch time too pen them all up how I thought and get them all sucking, and then the ewe that was mothering them all went and f**king lambed a set of twins 😭😭😭 they were only alone for 4 bloody hours 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
You were lucky then those small weak useless lambs are enough too break anyone when you get like 30 of them and spent all day trying to get them going and you leave them alone for half hour and come back and they’re dead.. had about 10 in my kitchen at one point 🤦‍♂️
Easycare innit.... :)

I think we had 1-2 cades as Mum was low on milk, both sold to kill. Felt lucky in hindsight, after hearing of some horror stories, such as yours. Sooo frustrating.

Missus used to brings cade back from her Hon Bro, reared apart from mine, 2 weeks keeping the feckers alive and then Poof! She is banned from going near there at lambing time now ;)
 
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Fat Lamb

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Yorkshire
I opened my lambing shed door yesterday at 5am too 11 lambs, 1 ewe mothering the f**king lot of them… took me until lunch time too pen them all up how I thought and get them all sucking, and then the ewe that was mothering them all went and f**king lambed a set of twins 😭😭😭 they were only alone for 4 bloody hours 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
A lot of sh!t can happen in 4 hours!
At least you found them all alive.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
What does the vet say re timing of AB?

If it's ASAP, why not do 'em when scanning and do Hept at usual time?
Managed to track down my vet guru :)

Jab with AB immediately after scanning*, (so this week), and again shortly before lambing is optimum.

As has been said here, a big no on Hep and AB together...


*Any barrens found, are off next week, so they will not be jabbed.. ;)
 
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