Establishing AB15 legume mix

[Feldspar]

I have this conundrum now too. Have a lot of AB8 to put in and we have had a lot of rain this way so soils are damp and not able to bear a lot of weight without compacting. How important is it to bale of the straw do you think when establishing? I was thinking of doing this and then maybe straight in with a Rapid or 750a, but if we do damage when harvesting / baling, then we might need to cultivate, and then that will take time to get a seedbed. As mentioned above, some is behind spring barley and ears are already going down a bit so there is bound to be quite a bit of seed shed, meaning again it will take time for volunteers to appear. I half wondered about using some sort of outcast machine to sprinkle it into the standing spring barley before some of last rain, but it feels a bit risky given the cost of the seed. With all this wet, I can definitely see slugs being a problem too. All rather stressful.

 

[Fat hen]

I have this conundrum now too. Have a lot of AB8 to put in and we have had a lot of rain this way so soils are damp and not able to bear a lot of weight without compacting. How important is it to bale of the straw do you think when establishing? I was thinking of doing this and then maybe straight in with a Rapid or 750a, but if we do damage when harvesting / baling, then we might need to cultivate, and then that will take time to get a seedbed. As mentioned above, some is behind spring barley and ears are already going down a bit so there is bound to be quite a bit of seed shed, meaning again it will take time for volunteers to appear. I half wondered about using some sort of outcast machine to sprinkle it into the standing spring barley before some of last rain, but it feels a bit risky given the cost of the seed. With all this wet, I can definitely see slugs being a problem too. All rather stressful.

I've got 380ac to establish. The plan post WW: Flatlfit TL + fieldends/thin areas. Then chip it over with mounted discs/crosskill at speed. Drill 750a. Roll.

 

[Feldspar]

I've got 380ac to establish. The plan post WW: Flatlfit TL + fieldends/thin areas. Then chip it over with mounted discs/crosskill at speed. Drill 750a. Roll.

What are you planning to do about straw? Chop or bale it? Problem is baling traffic is a contractor and they aren't running terribly low tyre pressures and so it does compact the soil quite a lot. Against that putting a disc drill straight into chopped straw will be icky.

 

[dragonfly]

I've got 380ac to establish. The plan post WW: Flatlfit TL + fieldends/thin areas. Then chip it over with mounted discs/crosskill at speed. Drill 750a. Roll.

I agree, that certain areas are going to need the flatlift, to sort out any compaction that might hinder the small seeds establishing fully.
I too, planned to bale the straw, but I am aware that the baling contractors may also add to the compaction.

 

[cotswoldcs]

I've got 380ac to establish. The plan post WW: Flatlfit TL + fieldends/thin areas. Then chip it over with mounted discs/crosskill at speed. Drill 750a. Roll.

That's a lot. What percentage of your arable is that?
Will you go WW-AB15(2yrs)-WW ?

 

[BigBarl]

"If" there is sufficient moisture in the seedbed, would drilling with a tine drill (with the tines lifted well up, so they are scratching the surface) and relying on the covering harrows to do the rest, be an option? Following up with the rolls.

You’ll be fine, cheaper than getting a contractor in with a grass seeder Harrow as the only much better option.

 

[Fat hen]

What are you planning to do about straw? Chop or bale it? Problem is baling traffic is a contractor and they aren't running terribly low tyre pressures and so it does compact the soil quite a lot. Against that putting a disc drill straight into chopped straw will be icky.

I'm not risking baling. Lots of shunting back & forth picking the bales up too. Using the discs to tickle the straw under.

 

[Fat hen]

That's a lot. What percentage of your arable is that?
Will you go WW-AB15(2yrs)-WW ?

Yep Ive had 23ha ab15 for the last 5 yrs. Now going for 150ha ish.70% of the farm - pays better, low costs, less risky. Plus you get the 1st year as a bonus, as you know!
WW-AB15 2yrs-AB15

 

[Feldspar]

I'm not risking baling. Lots of shunting back & forth picking the bales up too. Using the discs to tickle the straw under.

Thanks, I'm beginning to tend towards that myself now unless it's much drier than it is now when we come to cut these fields. Contractor we'd use has a bale chaser, but there's still quite a lot of wheeling damage over normal harvest traffic.

 

[DRC]

@Brisel . You said you’d established some in the spring . Why was that if you don’t mind me asking. I’m waiting on a wildlife offer that would start 1st Jan,. Rules say establish after harvest, so presume I get to grow another crop, winter barley , then drill after that, or is it better to just drill next spring .

 

[Brisel]

@Brisel . You said you’d established some in the spring . Why was that if you don’t mind me asking. I’m waiting on a wildlife offer that would start 1st Jan,. Rules say establish after harvest, so presume I get to grow another crop, winter barley , then drill after that, or is it better to just drill next spring .

The wet weather last autumn meant we couldn’t sow it by the deadline - on the best land of course…!

I got a derogation from the RPA to sow it in the spring instead but we nearly had to forego a year’s payment. The establishment was not great and the wet May saw slugs have a fair go at it in places despite a good seedbed and rolling after April drilling. I would not recommend this course of action as the RPA were ambiguous in their wording for the Minor Temporary Amendment.

 

[B'o'B]

The wet weather last autumn meant we couldn’t sow it by the deadline - on the best land of course…!

I got a derogation from the RPA to sow it in the spring instead but we nearly had to forego a year’s payment. The establishment was not great and the wet May saw slugs have a fair go at it in places despite a good seedbed and rolling after April drilling. I would not recommend this course of action as the RPA were ambiguous in their wording for the Minor Temporary Amendment.

We established 2 fields May 2020 as autumn 2019 meant there was little prospect of growing a profitable autumn crop in those fields, or profitable spring sown cash crop that could be reliably harvested by the 7 Sept.
Despite being very slow to get going due to the dry spring it looks great now, the poorest looking bit is the heaviest part of one field where I think there was just enough moisture to chit the legumes, but not enough to keep them going until a proper rain. (We had drilled before what was supposed to be a proper rain but we only ended up with a couple of mm).

 

[Flat 10]

Thanks, I'm beginning to tend towards that myself now unless it's much drier than it is now when we come to cut these fields. Contractor we'd use has a bale chaser, but there's still quite a lot of wheeling damage over normal harvest traffic.

Based on nothing more than gut instinct I would reckon that the chopped straw may be worse than the compaction. Unless you are planning on lots of cultivation. Which solves both things.

 

[Feldspar]

We established 2 fields May 2020 as autumn 2019 meant there was little prospect of growing a profitable autumn crop in those fields, or profitable spring sown cash crop that could be reliably harvested by the 7 Sept.
Despite being very slow to get going due to the dry spring it looks great now, the poorest looking bit is the heaviest part of one field where I think there was just enough moisture to chit the legumes, but not enough to keep them going until a proper rain. (We had drilled before what was supposed to be a proper rain but we only ended up with a couple of mm).

When would you say is too late for drilling AB8? I think our spring barley and winter wheat will be off in the next 14 days, but the spring wheat will be a bit longer. How tolerant do you think this type of mixture is of being put in with the 750a into chopped straw? Not very imagine. Have a Rapid which could mix the top later a bit which might be better?

 

[Feldspar]

Based on nothing more than gut instinct I would reckon that the chopped straw may be worse than the compaction. Unless you are planning on lots of cultivation. Which solves both things.

I thought maybe straight in with the Rapid, or stick the Discordon in with the legs not in / very shallow?

 

[Flat 10]

Maschio? Then vad or JD.

 

[Feldspar]

Maschio? Then vad or JD.

Don't know if that would be better or worse than the Discordon?

 

[Flat 10]

Don't know if that would be better or worse than the Discordon?

Nor do I. Gut feeling again.

 

[B'o'B]

We put our AB8 in first week of Oct, it has come ok on the whole, and has mainly filled out better than I could have hoped looking at in this spring. I would say mid Sept would have been much better, but that wasn’t an option for us due to weather.

 

[Brisel]

We established 2 fields May 2020 as autumn 2019 meant there was little prospect of growing a profitable autumn crop in those fields, or profitable spring sown cash crop that could be reliably harvested by the 7 Sept.
Despite being very slow to get going due to the dry spring it looks great now, the poorest looking bit is the heaviest part of one field where I think there was just enough moisture to chit the legumes, but not enough to keep them going until a proper rain. (We had drilled before what was supposed to be a proper rain but we only ended up with a couple of mm).

How did that work with the RPA? Did you tell them you couldn’t sow it in 2019 or did your scheme start 1/1/2020?