Establishing AB15 legume mix

[Brisel]

You make an interesting point about resowing. I asked a ex FWAG adviser about not sowing AB15 (yes I know I should have asked NE technical staff). The reply was that the prescription says establish by mid September. If I sought a derogation to delay until next Spring the advice was NE would be able to and might ask to recover the payment made for the 2021 year as the prescription was not met. However, if the seed is sown and an invoice is on site and a record of cultivations held then even if fails to establish satisfactorily have met the prescription.

I note in this thread commendable attempts to establish a thick clover sward for the benefit of rotation etc. I equally interested in meeting the scheme rules?

So I shall be really interested in how you fare with seeking a derogation. I know Tesla I ought to ask myself. I might now but it seems to take an age to get a reply from NE.

See post #31 in this thread for the basics of a derogation. PM me and I’ll give you my phone number for specifics. I got a derogation through the ex FWAG advisor (for delayed establishment last autumn) we use for CS schemes as he speaks the language the RPA might understand.

 

[teslacoils]

We will still attempt to sow if possible.if you do your best endeavours, I fail to see the problem.

As an aside, I had 42 lapwing on a single field of ab6 which was really good. So if you have a mix of options then something will work!

 

[Hindsight]

See post #31 in this thread for the basics of a derogation. PM me and I’ll give you my phone number for specifics. I got a derogation through the ex FWAG advisor (for delayed establishment last autumn) we use for CS schemes as he speaks the language the RPA might understand.

Thanks for that comment Brisel. Most of that which I am involved in is not sown or will be tomorrow. But I will ask about another farm where we were going to wait for a flush of spring barley. Cheers.

 

[Hindsight]

We will still attempt to sow if possible.if you do your best endeavours, I fail to see the problem.

As an aside, I had 42 lapwing on a single field of ab6 which was really good. So if you have a mix of options then something will work!

The Lapwings is good news.

 

[Feldspar]

Hi, lets is know how you fare seeking a derogation from NE. Some of fields of AB15 I am involved in were sown befor weekend and more due Monday on 'clarty' clay that is totally dry but will be sticky as anything when rains. And then will be wanting to sow wheat that earns money rather than this stewardship sub job. Wonder how many wish they had never succumbed to the Stewardship bait with wheat at £175 for 22 harvest. I was sceptical. Hey ho.

No, the figures still definitely stack up IMO. Stewardship margin is only consistently beaten by 1st wheat and OSR before it got so hard to grow. We've got some going in distant blocks and a new farm with tiny fields both of which are not as profitable as our core farming block. Frees up a shed which can rent out for commercial storage which adds £100+/ha to the stewardship margin. AB6 allows me to maximise my wheat acreage too. Inevitably when cereal prices are v high the gaps close, but our stewardship has meant I didn't have to stress so much about the last two wet autumns, and my business is much more robust than some if wheat had dropped to £110/t. I just wish we hadn't had the combo of a rubbish autumn last year, RPA taking a year to reply to application and now a tricky harvest.

 

[Feldspar]

Do the maths on second cereals and non osr break crops. AB15 looks far more attractive when compared to those on dirty land! An extra 1/2 t/acre first wheat yield boost after AB15 here and far lower black grass levels too.

My worry with my wheat - ab6 - wheat is that the wheat post AB6 is more like a 3rd wheat than a 1st wheat. Would do you think?

 

[Andy26]

My worry with my wheat - ab6 - wheat is that the wheat post AB6 is more like a 3rd wheat than a 1st wheat. Would do you think?

I've the same concern, I guess after three years Take All is less of a problem.

It doesn't say you cannot broadcast a cover crop before harvest, that would surely be a double environmental benefit?

 

[Feldspar]

I've the same concern, I guess after three years Take All is less of a problem.

It doesn't say you cannot broadcast a cover crop before harvest, that would surely be a double environmental benefit?

I did consider this year asking them for special permission to drill a cover crop before the 1 August release in areas that I had sprayed off in May for black-grass. I think this would be a win for them and me, but in the end workload and moling / cultivation needs did not permit. I might ask this year.

 

[teslacoils]

My experience of the ab6 is that, no matter what you do, it's always a weedy mess by 15 may and large parts need spraying off. If, at this point, you could broadcast a cover crop etc, then it would work much better. I've had both very good and very poor crops after ab6. Sometimes the structure is too sh!t. Try wheat, oats, ab16 as the volunteer oats are ace and spring oats will usually by stuffed by the frost.

 

[Andy26]

I did consider this year asking them for special permission to drill a cover crop before the 1 August release in areas that I had sprayed off in May for black-grass. I think this would be a win for them and me, but in the end workload and moling / cultivation needs did not permit. I might ask this year.

I guess one of the options aims is for ground nesting birds, so perhaps a cover crop only via Broadcasting as a drill of any description would likely cause big disturbance.

 

[Brisel]

My worry with my wheat - ab6 - wheat is that the wheat post AB6 is more like a 3rd wheat than a 1st wheat. Would do you think?

I'd have to ask how much volunteer wheat and other grasses you had in the regeneration but in principle, any volunteers carried over will have hosted the take all pathogens.

At least you could spray setaside off 15th May and then cultivate it from 1st July "for weed control" which was usually a bit of groundsel.

 

[Grass And Grain]

@Feldspar 60% seed drilled now, 40% saved to broadcast before a rain? Realise you're taking of a large area.

Pea an bean weevil have hammered mine.

 

[teslacoils]

Where I broadcast more of the legume after the dreaded beetle, I suddenly became every local pigeons favourite. They were after the vetch.

 

[teslacoils]

I mean weevil .

 

[Grass And Grain]

I mean weevil .

Did you spray?

 

[teslacoils]

Did you spray?

No. One day there were all nicely there. Three or four days later they were all eaten.

 

[Grass And Grain]

No. One day there were all nicely there. Three or four days later they were all eaten.

That's what I've just experienced. So slow growing, they nibbled it off.

Some end july early drilled fields are great, with next to no damage. They got plenty of rain.

Slightly later drilled, forget exact date, would be about 15th August, heavy land, got a bit of rain, emerged, now disappeared. Now got about 6 plants per m2 in places. Just about enough. The Timothy is still there, so glad I added Timothy.

Some seed left over. Broadcast some seed 2 days ago to fill in the bad patches, but missed the showers. Broadcasting rest of seed tomorrow, as looks like much more chance of general rain this week.

Hoping the pea and bean weevil will be less active soon?

It wasn't slugs.

 

[Fat hen]

Hi, lets is know how you fare seeking a derogation from NE. Some of fields of AB15 I am involved in were sown befor weekend and more due Monday on 'clarty' clay that is totally dry but will be sticky as anything when rains. And then will be wanting to sow wheat that earns money rather than this stewardship sub job. Wonder how many wish they had never succumbed to the Stewardship bait with wheat at £175 for 22 harvest. I was sceptical. Hey ho.

WW might be at 175 but the weather can soon spill the fun as in 2020 harvest, for us at least

 

[teslacoils]

@Grass And Grain I'm broadcasting into an 8ha block. Third time lucky. It's the old grass based mix, so I have a nice grass sward with scattered clovers.

Heavy showers forecast tomorrow so will have 90 percent of the 200ac in. Then get the hallmark ready.

 

[Grass And Grain]

@Grass And Grain I'm broadcasting into an 8ha block. Third time lucky. It's the old grass based mix, so I have a nice grass sward with scattered clovers.

Heavy showers forecast tomorrow so will have 90 percent of the 200ac in. Then get the hallmark ready.

Generic Hallmark + some oil went on yesterday, trying to save it. Redrilling couple of outside breeds right now. Fingers crossed.

Don't like reestablishing at these seed prices.