Establishing AB15 legume mix

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
Agree with the AB6 being a safer bet, I've redrilled areas of AB15 and AB8, seed cost is scary and most of the chances of good establishment are out of your control.

I think with the AB15 I could redrill it several times and be no better off.

Out of interest, what sort of cost/ha are you finding for the seeds?

Listening in on all this makes me so very VERY glad that STW accepted my application for an expansion of STEPS. The Bumblebird type mix is supposedly a Spring sown option, but for my heavy land, whack it in mid/late September with Aitchison is so much better...

Spring sown seed is pretty reasonable on cost from Kevin here @67/ha.

Inspection is sensible, and if a real attempt has been made and the crop struggled, then not a big issue, redrill or patch.

It is what ELMS should aspire to....!
 

Andy26

Moderator
Arable Farmer
Location
Northants
This thread is making me seriously reconsider the wildlife offer ive applied for .
Do I need the stress
Fascinating isn't it! You have a seed invoice and evidence of attempting to establish. So I am of view that will suffice as enough endeavour if an RPA inspector were to appear (well I hope so!)

We are going to have to have a joint TFF whip round for AB15/AB1/AB8 counsellors!! By the sounds of it.
I think @Hindsight is correct, nowhere in the prescription does it stipulate a %establishment or minimum plant count. It does recommend keeping evidence that you have implemented the option as required. So seed invoices and picture and records of field operations are the key.

I think this thread shows most farmers are doing their best and wanting a well established option and not a weedy mess.

@silverfox if your CSS looks half as good as your crops, you have nothing to get stressed about!
 

Andy26

Moderator
Arable Farmer
Location
Northants
Out of interest, what sort of cost/ha are you finding for the seeds?

Listening in on all this makes me so very VERY glad that STW accepted my application for an expansion of STEPS. The Bumblebird type mix is supposedly a Spring sown option, but for my heavy land, whack it in mid/late September with Aitchison is so much better...

Spring sown seed is pretty reasonable on cost from Kevin here @67/ha.

Inspection is sensible, and if a real attempt has been made and the crop struggled, then not a big issue, redrill or patch.

It is what ELMS should aspire to....!
AB15 2021 spec £90/ha
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
next summer I’m planning to put my current AB15 through the combine after spraying off, mainly to reduce seed returns of the ryegrass, but I think it should also yield a significant quality of clover seed. I will use this in the spring ‘23 if the brought in seed mix I have to sow autumn ‘22 clover doesn’t take well. 2 bites at the cherry! (And I have a feeling that holding a quality of clover seed in stock might not be the worst business decision I ever make going forward!)
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
next summer I’m planning to put my current AB15 through the combine after spraying off, mainly to reduce seed returns of the ryegrass, but I think it should also yield a significant quality of clover seed. I will use this in the spring ‘23 if the brought in seed mix I have to sow autumn ‘22 clover doesn’t take well. 2 bites at the cherry! (And I have a feeling that holding a quality of clover seed in stock might not be the worst business decision I ever make going forward!)

I think that is a really good idea.
 
You need to shop around on these grass / flower mixtures. I paid about £70-80/ha for my AB8 mix. Mind you I did order nearly 5 tonnes of it. I heard of a number of similarly big areas of it going in this year and I was really worried at one point that I wouldn't be able to get the seed. If anyone has got some to drill next year I'd get your order in and get it on farm asap.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
You need to shop around on these grass / flower mixtures. I paid about £70-80/ha for my AB8 mix. Mind you I did order nearly 5 tonnes of it. With the number of similarly big areas of it going in this year, I was really worried at one point that I wouldn't be able to get the seed. If anyone has got some to drill next year I'd get your order in and get it on farm asap.
I tend to buy cheap base seed (harder this time) to meet teh STEPS specs, and then bulk with cereal.

However on the Autumn drilled stubbles, I don't need to add cereals... :)
 

Neddy flanders

Member
BASE UK Member
Any suggestions for removing volunteer wheat from AB15? Suppose I could use glyphosate, it probably wont hurt the AB15 mix given none of that seed seems to have appeared :banghead: Glad I am not committed to a large area! What are the consequences of failure, can I simply not claim for it, fallow and try again next year or is there further penalty? Last years AB6 establishment looked to have failed in the autumn but somehow it surprised me and came good by mid summer... :scratchhead: As said above, some of this "not farming" malarky is more stressful that commercial cropping!
no, still claim. youve tried to sow it. stewardship is only a way of the powers that be ensuring theres no monoculture wheat fields. what actually grows is irrelevant.
we applied Falcon to AB 15 sown after Oats. volunteer oats would have swamped clover and provided slug heaven.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
£30/acre for AB15, included Timothy.

If fine, good seedbed, I found 2/3 seed rate to be OK.

If poor seedbed and no rain, it's more stressful than growing rape.

Luckily got some rain on heavy land in early August, but then dry. Wasn't watching and weevil took 70% of the clover in one field of heavy land. Just about enough plants left there.

Best establishment by fae was after the plough, but it did rain nicely after drilling, and that was sand or fine loam so less chance of drying out.

2m strip very thin on field boundaries. Slugs crawling out of hedge backs. Broadcast more seed. Need to pellet field edges next time.

Think made a mistake with the AB1. Put too much phacelia in it. Canopy a bit strong and smothering out clovers. Hoping frost knocks it back.

Generally good establishment of AB15 and AB1. Late harvest didn't help. Best after w barley.

Looking forward to soil improvements.

As others say, nearly more stressful than growing cash crops. Did spread workload out. Just kept bobbing a field in between harvest work.

Easier now the 5 year AB1 is all done. Will be a bit of a bottleneck in mid-sept trying to work cropping land AND top AB15. Might be a job for dad. Or get neighbour to bring some sheeps for the AB1 in late autumn. Can't decide between benefits of mulching down, but disel cost vs neighbours sheep. Golden rule is to not even consider buying my own sheep.
 
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alomy75

Member
Any suggestions for removing volunteer wheat from AB15? Suppose I could use glyphosate, it probably wont hurt the AB15 mix given none of that seed seems to have appeared :banghead: Glad I am not committed to a large area! What are the consequences of failure, can I simply not claim for it, fallow and try again next year or is there further penalty? Last years AB6 establishment looked to have failed in the autumn but somehow it surprised me and came good by mid summer... :scratchhead: As said above, some of this "not farming" malarky is more stressful that commercial cropping!
I had an RPA inspection lady rock up; I had 4 parcels of ab9 2 good 2 failures all dd. Showed her 1 excel spreadsheet with drilling dates and feeding dates, seed invoice and explained the dry spring incompatibility with RPA recommended drilling dates and she was pleased as punch. She said the inspectors aren’t daft and are quite clear which growers are taking the pee and which have genuinely tried.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
£30/acre for AB15, included Timothy.

If fine, good seedbed, I found 2/3 seed rate to be OK.

If poor seedbed and no rain, it's more stressful than growing rape.

Luckily got some rain on heavy land in early August, but then dry. Wasn't watching and weevil took 70% of the clover in one field of heavy land. Just about enough plants left there.

Best establishment by fae was after the plough, but it did rain nicely after drilling, and that was sand or fine loam so less chance of drying out.

2m strip very thin on field boundaries. Slugs crawling out of hedge backs. Broadcast more seed. Need to pellet field edges next time.

Think made a mistake with the AB1. Put too much phacelia in it. Canopy a bit strong and smothering out clovers. Hoping frost knocks it back.

Generally good establishment of AB15 and AB1. Late harvest didn't help. Best after w barley.

Looking forward to soil improvements.

As others say, nearly more stressful than growing cash crops. Did spread workload out. Just kept bobbing a field in between harvest work.

Easier now the 5 year AB1 is all done. Will be a bit of a bottleneck in mid-sept trying to work cropping land AND top AB15. Might be a job for dad. Or get neighbour to bring some sheeps for the AB1 in late autumn. Can't decide between benefits of mulching down, but disel cost vs neighbours sheep. Golden rule is to not even consider buying my own sheep.
Right amount of rain at the right time, seems to be the critical factor I have found!

On the Phacelia front, we had a very verdant and strong growth last Autumn, maybe a foot high. -8C Turned it blue, and it bounced back in Spring ;)
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
Right amount of rain at the right time, seems to be the critical factor I have found!

On the Phacelia front, we had a very verdant and strong growth last Autumn, maybe a foot high. -8C Turned it blue, and it bounced back in Spring ;)
Oh, never grown it before, didn't realise so frost tolerant.
 

Neddy flanders

Member
BASE UK Member
Has anyone asked NE or RPA if they can glyphosate off their AB15 which was sown in August but now resembles a field of blackgrass and volunteers and re-sowing in a month or so time to make a better job of it?

who would you ask ?
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Has anyone asked NE or RPA if they can glyphosate off their AB15 which was sown in August but now resembles a field of blackgrass and volunteers and re-sowing in a month or so time to make a better job of it?

who would you ask ?
Send an email to the help desk, quoting your agreement number. Send pics of the seed ticket or invoice, pics of the current state, and ask them.

Is there much clover / legume in it, or are they all swamped?
 

Neddy flanders

Member
BASE UK Member
Send an email to the help desk, quoting your agreement number. Send pics of the seed ticket or invoice, pics of the current state, and ask them.

Is there much clover / legume in it, or are they all swamped?
a few clovers, enough to satisfy an inspection if i had one tomorrow. can see a massive BG seed return if im not careful. redrilling would be far better, i reckon, even if more expense.
 

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