Establishing grass and wildflowers using 750a

[RTK Farmer]

So we will have quite a few acres of grass buffer strips, whole fields of grass and wildflowers to establish this summer as part of our Mid Tier agreement.

Have you had your new application accepted? Thought they were on hold for some reason.

 

[Feldspar]

Have you had your new application accepted? Thought they were on hold for some reason.

Had it through this morning with an agreement offer. As I said elsewhere, I send them really nice Christmas hampers.

 

[Devon James]

Another stupid / rookie question: when do you drill grass seed?! Sounds like I should try and bale the straw. Failing that might have to cultivate shallowly to mix in straw. Disc drill though thick winter barley straw doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. Is a Claydon too blunt an instrument, or do I remember that @Devon James uses his?

Established short term seeds two/three times now. We had a terra star on demo last spring and ran it over the forage rape stubbles. Then rolled, and Claydoned the seed on. Drill was pretty much out of the ground and rear harrow was working it in.
In September after maize went twice with the drill now working slightly more aggressive. Sheep are now strip grazing it with their lambs.
Good idea to bale the straw, I will organise transport down to Devon.

 

[Flat 10]

That's always the other problem being in non-grass country. Not many people have ways of remove cut grass.

If you are only putting wildflowers in a few odd corners you can rake topped grass very successfully with a KKK.

 

[Feldspar]

If you are only putting wildflowers in a few odd corners you can rake topped grass very successfully with a KKK.

To be discussed!

 

[Flat 10]

To be discussed!

Ok no problem any time. How much do you charge for filling in a mid tier agreement?

 

[Feldspar]

Ok no problem any time. How much do you charge for filling in a mid tier agreement?

My home done one sailed through with almost no corrections. Always knew I was a good paper pusher.

 

[Flat 10]

My home done one sailed through with almost no corrections. Always knew I was a good paper pusher.

I know that's why I want advice! I will come scatter seeds for you in exchange.

 

[Feldspar]

I know that's why I want advice! I will come scatter seeds for you in exchange.

Happy to discuss at any time. Just give me a ring.

 

[Brisel]

Don't drill into existing grass unless roundupped off. There will be enough seed in the ground already that will grow with the flowers. I would start cleaning the areas up ASAP after 15th May (if using them as fallow for greening) with a Carrier or Terrastar. My best pollen & nectar mixes for ELS were established after 5 stale seedbeds then broadcast with a normal drill set with the coulters above the surface. Cutting & removing the sward in latter years is critical to reduce fertility even if there are legumes like lucerne in the mix. The plots will need to be topped repeatedly in the first year to prevent more agressive grasses dominating the sward.

I have attached a Natural England fact sheet that is worth reading on the subject.

 

[Feldspar]

Don't drill into existing grass unless roundupped off. There will be enough seed in the ground already that will grow with the flowers. I would start cleaning the areas up ASAP after 15th May (if using them as fallow for greening) with a Carrier or Terrastar. My best pollen & nectar mixes for ELS were established after 5 stale seedbeds then broadcast with a normal drill set with the coulters above the surface. Cutting & removing the sward in latter years is critical to reduce fertility even if there are legumes like lucerne in the mix. The plots will need to be topped repeatedly in the first year to prevent more agressive grasses dominating the sward.

I have attached a Natural England fact sheet that is worth reading on the subject.

Thanks for the advice. I think AB8 is more like a floristically enhanced grass mix, rather than an out-and-out pollen and nectar mix like we would have used for EF4. The list of what they want you to establish in the 'What to sow' section is here: https://www.gov.uk/countryside-stewardship-grants/flower-rich-margins-and-plots-ab8.

We've got quite a lot of those things listed already established. I would just like a few more flowers, but am skeptical that completely reseeding will help enough to overcome the considerable amount of effort and cost associated with doing so.

 

[Brisel]

Fair enough, but the cost of reseeding it if bodging it in the first place makes the extra initial work look very cheap! Anything other than fine grasses will swamp the flowers.

Who do you plan to use for seed? Kings? Bright Seeds? Oakbank?

 

[Feldspar]

Fair enough, but the cost of reseeding it if bodging it in the first place makes the extra initial work look very cheap! Anything other than fine grasses will swamp the flowers.

Who do you plan to use for seed? Kings? Bright Seeds? Oakbank?

What we plan to do I think is to experiment with different methods this spring, and then learn from those experiments to have a better idea of what to do for the autumn sowing window. There are a few fairly unsuccessful areas which will start again from scratch, but many of the areas the lady from FWAG who came round said were very good. Just need to mow a bit more perhaps this spring to control the thistles a bit.

Have used Oakbank in the past and did speak to them last week. Any particular recommendations.

 

[Brisel]

Only those. Hubbards, Bartholomews are others who supply. Some of them do take the mickey when it coes to pricing, so beware of what you are getting & compare like with like.

 

[Feldspar]

Don't drill into existing grass unless roundupped off. There will be enough seed in the ground already that will grow with the flowers. I would start cleaning the areas up ASAP after 15th May (if using them as fallow for greening) with a Carrier or Terrastar. My best pollen & nectar mixes for ELS were established after 5 stale seedbeds then broadcast with a normal drill set with the coulters above the surface. Cutting & removing the sward in latter years is critical to reduce fertility even if there are legumes like lucerne in the mix. The plots will need to be topped repeatedly in the first year to prevent more agressive grasses dominating the sward.

I have attached a Natural England fact sheet that is worth reading on the subject.

Would putting a Terrastar straight into grass work? My hunch is that the surface would be too thick and hard for it to do very much.

I hadn't thought of glyphosating the whole lot and letting everything regrow from seeds in the seedbank. Would that be better than using a lower rate of glyhposate to check growth rather than killing it completely?

 

[Brisel]

I've not tried using my Carrier on a thick mat of grass. Last time I did this kind of thing it was into arable stubbles. Do you have an old set of medium/heavy dscs in the nettles to start the process with?

What grass species do you have already? Couch, bromes, meadow grass, ryegrasses are not conducive to flowers.

 

[Simon Chiles]

I've not tried using my Carrier on a thick mat of grass. Last time I did this kind of thing it was into arable stubbles.

Don't bother. We've got a 5m mounted set of Tulip compact discs ( would be much heavier than a carrier and can work deeper) and they just bounce over a thick mat of grass, if they do go in they just lift the tufts up into clumps making it rough and you'd need 5 or 6 passes just to make a seedbed, even then it wouldn't be special. The Turbo Tiller ( sorry Terrastar) would be worse, definitely not heavy enough.

 

[Feldspar]

This is what some of the not-so-good bits looks like at the moment.

 

[Simon Chiles]

This is what some of the not-so-good bits looks like at the moment.
View attachment 483292

If you've got sharpe discs on the drill I'd drill straight into that. Don't forget to take into account the thickness of the matt when setting seed depth.

 

[dontknowanything]

We have to carrier our ground nesting bird plots twice a year, did it today as it happens. The first pass just scruffs it up a bit, but the second pass really cuts it up well.