Ethanol , will the government take notice?

[Derrick Hughes]

What's the net return on energy counting everything right down to the quad bike that uses fuel to spread slug pellets

 

[Still Farming]

What's the net return on energy counting everything right down to the quad bike that uses fuel to spread slug pellets

You'll need to do your individual per farm/per business annual fuel usage calculations I guess to find that out.

 

[steveR]

You'll need to do your individual per farm/per business annual fuel usage calculations I guess to find that out.

Coming to a Farm Assurance Scheme near you real soon....

 

[Still Farming]

Coming to a Farm Assurance Scheme near you real soon....

Carbon footprint calculations and how your going to reduce it or we will Penalise you possibly !

 

[Derrick Hughes]

You'll need to do your individual per farm/per business annual fuel usage calculations I guess to find that out.

So how do the experts work it out . When they calculate burning straw for electric. Do they work out the growing costs trasport and loading costs and the air pollution that generates

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

So how do the experts work it out . When they calculate burning straw for electric. Do they work out the growing costs trasport and loading costs and the air pollution that generates

And how do you split those GHG impacts between the grain and the straw?

 

[New Puritan]

So how do the experts work it out . When they calculate burning straw for electric. Do they work out the growing costs trasport and loading costs and the air pollution that generates

Yes. Ofgem who administer the RHI publish guidance on how to do it, and also make a calculator tool available for download where you can do the sums: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/uk-solid-and-gaseous-biomass-carbon-calculator.

@holwellcourtfarm - it does that too. It's called co-product allocation. None of it is really all that difficult.

EDIT - sorry the Ofgem one is for AD plants. The DfT do something similar for biofuels.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

And how do you split those GHG impacts between the grain and the straw?

You would have to calculate from baling

 

[ollie989898]

You are all getting very excited but seem to have forgotten oil is barely 60 bucks a throw. Ethanol just can't compete with that. Environmentally its great because it is biodegradable but the rest is very dubious.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Indeed, but I would've thought that we'd got past the whole "it's slightly cheaper therefore good" mentality. Digging up fossil fuels is just madness. It's what the Human Race did for a while. Everything above ground is just recycling. Yes it's gonna mean a shift in costs and mentality but it's what needs to happen.

(I realise you're just playing Devil's advocate btw)

 

[ollie989898]

But the infrastructure for oil already exists on a huge scale and its a well refined process. Why add ethanol to it which cant compete economically?

 

[DaveGrohl]

So you weren't playing Devil's Advocate?

We either try to wean ourselves off fossil fuels or we don't. I have big issues with the whole climate change bandwagon but I do believe that merrily digging fossil fuels up to burn is on borrowed time, and some of the reasons to stop it are sensible and hold some scientific logic.

 

[milkloss]

In my opinion, and that doesn’t really count for much, it’s all about money and power. A couple of articles admittedly from a conspiracy website.

Predatory "Green Capitalism" Is Monetizing the Air, and It's Going To Cost You
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019...italism-monetizing-air-and-its-going-cost-you

Bombshell Claim: Scientists Find "Man-made Climate Change Doesn't Exist In Practice"
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019...man-made-climate-change-doesnt-exist-practice

And one for fun, porn accounts for 4% of ALL co2 emissions so stop wanking and we’ll save the planet.

Society Masturbating Its Way Into Climate Catastrophe: Report
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-14/society-masturbating-its-way-climate-catastrophe-report

 

[ollie989898]

So you weren't playing Devil's Advocate?

We either try to wean ourselves off fossil fuels or we don't. I have big issues with the whole climate change bandwagon but I do believe that merrily digging fossil fuels up to burn is on borrowed time, and some of the reasons to stop it are sensible and hold some scientific logic.

I was and I wasn't: im a pragmatist and look at the practicalities first and foremost. Im not convinced ethanol is automatically better as a fuel.

 

[Pond digger]

But the infrastructure for oil already exists on a huge scale and its a well refined process. Why add ethanol to it which cant compete economically?

Because it’s about more than economics.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Because it’s about more than economics.

Economics would be fine if we properly accounted for the indirect costs instead of just calling them "externalities" and omitting them.

Factor in a reasonable cost for the impact of the environmental damage done by the oil and gas industries and suddenly they don't look so cheap.

It's our economic model that's broken.

 

[ollie989898]

Because it’s about more than economics.

Ethanol doesnt work though. You are approaching it from a farmer perspective.

 

[Clive]

I think we will make a TFF infographic about this

Here we go - get retweeting and sharing on Facebook etc to make our point

We can help provide bullets for the guns but you guys have to pull some triggers if you want change in public perception of our industry

 

[Pond digger]

Economics would be fine if we properly accounted for the indirect costs instead of just calling them "externalities" and omitting them.

Factor in a reasonable cost for the impact of the environmental damage done by the oil and gas industries and suddenly they don't look so cheap.

It's our economic model that's broken.

This is the problem with so much of what we make and do- no proper and full accounting. We can print all the money we like, but if the planet is f****d, it’s not much use! Some (many) people just can’t see beyond the £s, $s and €s.