EU in or out - TFF vote added

[Dr Evil]

You can't argue with most of this:

Taken from the Telegraph, written by Boris:

Everyone feels sorry for the 15,000 steelworkers at Port Talbot; everyone in this country will be hoping for a solution that will keep them in work. That is partly because their fate seems so unjust. This disaster isn’t their fault. They don’t have some new strain of the Seventies “British disease”. The plant is not a hotbed of union activity.

I gave up reading this after the first sentence. I suspect there wasn't 15000 steel workers in Port Talbot in its heyday. There's currently just under 4,000. If Boris can't be bothered to get a simple fact like that correct, in his opening sentence- what hope is there for the rest of his "facts"....

 

[arbel]

I gave up reading this after the first sentence. I suspect there wasn't 15000 steel workers in Port Talbot in its heyday. There's currently just under 4,000. If Boris can't be bothered to get a simple fact like that correct, in his opening sentence- what hope is there for the rest of his "facts"....

Bojo has consistently shown himself to be very weak on facts in relation to his assuming the title of grand leader of the Brexit campaign. This was also the case at his performance in front of the Select Committee recently. Quite how he is being seen as Prime Ministerial material is beyond me.

 

[organic]

Boris wasn't far out - read http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/port-talbot-steelworks-industrial-leviathan-10702555

Article says workforce was 20,000 in 1960's

 

[Muck Spreader]

Boris wasn't far out - read http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/port-talbot-steelworks-industrial-leviathan-10702555

Article says workforce was 20,000 in 1960's

I think the problem is with the word "steelworkers".

 

[bassetts]

Okay if just for argument we stay do we think that France and Germany will say thank god and how can we help you
or will they think we got then now no bargaining no help and where's that broom handle

 

[RobFZS]

if we vote to stay, it's a message to brussels to turn on the tap for full integration, what's cameron gonna do? hold another referendum, i doubt it

 

[turbo]

Okay if just for argument we stay do we think that France and Germany will say thank god and how can we help you
or will they think we got then now no bargaining no help and where's that broom handle

I Think it depends on what sort of attitude we go back with,if we have the attitude that we want it to work then i think it could be good for us.same attitude as now it will be a disaster

 

[itsalwaysme]

For those voting to stay, do you really think the EU is working at the moment, to me they have let too many countries join, sinking ship springs to mind

 

[Ashtree]

For those voting to stay, do you really think the EU is working at the moment, to me they have let too many countries join, sinking ship springs to mind

Do you really think any country or government in the world achieved universal acclaim from its people's. We are all humans. We live in an imperfect world.
Many if not most governments are either coalition make ups or minority governments. By extension many voters feel disenfranchised.
Give me a few examples of "sovereign" countries where this utopia Brexiters foresee exists.
USA ...... land of the free????????????

 

[arbel]

Do you really think any country or government in the world achieved universal acclaim from its people's. We are all humans. We live in an imperfect world.
Many if not most governments are either coalition make ups or minority governments. By extension many voters feel disenfranchised.
Give me a few examples of "sovereign" countries where this utopia Brexiters foresee exists.
USA ...... land of the free????????????

What you say is perfectly true. But should we not all strive for something rather better? If we did not, we would still burn old ladies at the stake for witchcraft, still practice slavery, hang a teenager for poaching rabbits etc etc.
Brexiters do not claim or expect to see any Utopia after leaving the EU. Just a slightly better situation than we have now. Is that not worthwhile?
Come on Ashtree! In your heart of hearts you are a Brexiter. Just come out of that dingy closet and add your weight and experience to a worthwhile cause.

 

[CORK]

Apologies in advance for not reading all the posts here.
Im in Ireland and therefore only an observer of the Brexit debate.

The poll at the start of this thread is quite striking in that its 70% for OUT. I'll assume that its a fair representation of the current feeling of UK farmers.

Am I correct in thinking that a Brexit would for the most part mean an end to any payments to UK farmers?
Granted, it would lead to a slight reduction in paperwork.
However, would many UK farms be able to survive financially without such payments? I know that most Irish farms would certainly fail without these payments.

I would expect that most environmental laws and requirements would remain even under autonomous UK governence.

Just a question and I am by no means suggesting what is best for the UK.

 

[jockthethistle]

Irish farms are far more reliant on EU subs than mainland UK farms. Jim Brown writes about that in this weeks Scottish farmer . North and south of Irish border could be in for a shock. We milk 100 here. Subs are 8% of income here and in the long term we consider subs as unpredictable and becoming more and more irrelevant thoughts please. jtt

 

[Tha Ulsterscot]

Just a question and I am by no means suggesting what is best for the UK.

Unlike some Visitors in the last few days, and so much for the "special Relationship" between the USA & UK .

 

[Ashtree]

Irish farms are far more reliant on EU subs than mainland UK farms. Jim Brown writes about that in this weeks Scottish farmer . North and south of Irish border could be in for a shock. We milk 100 here. Subs are 8% of income here and in the long term we consider subs as unpredictable and becoming more and more irrelevant thoughts please. jtt

Sadly I think you are correct from Irish perspective.

Thing is though, all the indications so far from the Brexit leadership is they will pursue a cheap food policy. Unfettered imports will be allowed. UK farm gate prices could get hit very hard.

 

[jockthethistle]

Worse still ASHTREE I'm married to a yank and they never shut up or say the right thing ---still things could be worse be I could be about to miss genorous subsidies I never had in the first place. jtt

 

[CORK]

Irish farms are far more reliant on EU subs than mainland UK farms. Jim Brown writes about that in this weeks Scottish farmer . North and south of Irish border could be in for a shock. We milk 100 here. Subs are 8% of income here and in the long term we consider subs as unpredictable and becoming more and more irrelevant thoughts please. jtt

why are Irish farms more reliant on eu payments? Larger average farm size in the UK which allows efficiencies of scale? Then again, arent there a lot of tenanted farms in the UK which have to pay rent?

 

[CORK]

Irish farms are far more reliant on EU subs than mainland UK farms. Jim Brown writes about that in this weeks Scottish farmer . North and south of Irish border could be in for a shock. We milk 100 here. Subs are 8% of income here and in the long term we consider subs as unpredictable and becoming more and more irrelevant thoughts please. jtt

subs are a small part of income on dairy farms over here too. However, they are a large part of the income on arable and beef farms here.

when you say 8%, do you mean 8% of your revenue or 8% of your profit?

 

[jockthethistle]

Revenue

 

[CORK]

Revenue

Thanks. The payment is probably a much larger proportion of your profit so. Im not nit picking, just trying to see if the payment is as important at your side of the pond as it is here.

While I understand that scale and large owned land areas should help profitability of UK farms, I cant help thinking that a loss of EU payments would really hurt UK farming.

Ive worked professionally and casually in agriculture in both England and Scotland.

A tonne of grain or a litre of milk still costs too much to produce in £ land or € land at the moment. Whether we like them or not, EU payments help keep farms solvent in years like these.

 

[jockthethistle]

NI can set a seperate corporate taxrate Scotland can set a different income tax rate this kingdom is no longer united .. UK is already a federal state .. Rate of sub should be the same on all parts of the UK anything less is anti competitive and an injustice as I see it .. I will urge Jim Brown to write more on this subject in order to highlight the disparity .. jtt