EUROP grid still fit for purpose?

[hendrebc]

This might be contraversial...
After reading some comments on other threads i thought id start a thread about it. Is the EUROP grid still fit for purpose? The loin is the most valuable part of the carcass by far but the grid rewards gigots and shoulders equally. Good for everyone with better confirmation lambs but there is no real incentive for anyone to breed sheep with more length or loin depth even though thats what people who eat lamb want. Compare this to getting E grade lambs that you will get paid more for when an U or even R grade might be more valuable cut up if it has a better loin but the EUROP grid would pay less for it. Hope that last bit makes sense

 

[hendrebc]

@neilo @Woolless

 

[shearerlad]

I get what you mean and can understand both sides of the argument.
However, when I speak to my lamb buyers I keep hearing the same thing. Decent loin, we all know that, but if we could breed an animal with 4 back legs they could sell a lot more lamb!!

I had leg steaks from Aldi last week, done in the steak pan to med/rare, grind of pepper and a bit of mixed herbs. IMO far tastier than a chop and I could eat all that was on my plate i.e. No bones/no waste

 

[hendrebc]

I get what you mean and can understand both sides of the argument.
However, when I speak to my lamb buyers I keep hearing the same thing. Decent loin, we all know that, but if we could breed an animal with 4 back legs they could sell a lot more lamb!!

I had leg steaks from Aldi last week, done in the steak pan to med/rare, grind of pepper and a bit of mixed herbs. IMO far tastier than a chop and I could eat all that was on my plate i.e. No bones/no waste

I agree with you here id rather have a leg steak too. Have you tried those shoulder steaks they do? Thought it was a good.idea but found them tough

 

[llamedos]

Will be interesting to find out what comes from the recent call for views by AHDB on the very subject.

http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Carcase-Evaluation-.pdf

http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/call-industry-views-carcase-classification/

 

[andybk]

Perhaps our NZ members would like to comment on their yield based system and electronic grading with viascan ?
http://www.blnzgenetics.com/files/1457581064345.pdf

 

[neilo]

This might be contraversial...
After reading some comments on other threads i thought id start a thread about it. Is the EUROP grid still fit for purpose? The loin is the most valuable part of the carcass by far but the grid rewards gigots and shoulders equally. Good for everyone with better confirmation lambs but there is no real incentive for anyone to breed sheep with more length or loin depth even though thats what people who eat lamb want. Compare this to getting E grade lambs that you will get paid more for when an U or even R grade might be more valuable cut up if it has a better loin but the EUROP grid would pay less for it. Hope that last bit makes sense

EUROP does reward loin as well as hindquarters, just maybe not in proportion to the the market value of the different cuts. A rounded leg also gets a higher grade, but it doesn't necessarily have a higher yield of lean meat than a longer leg joint. For example, a Beltex has a very rounded and pronounced hindquarter, but it doesn't extend as far down the leg as that on a well fleshed Texel or Charollais.

I would also question whether a man looking at sheep coming past on a conveyor at the speed that modern abattoir throughputs dictate, can really give an objective assessment of shape, but that's a different argument.

 

[TL100]

Weight pays. I'm sure there are producers of shapey E grade lambs that are dismayed about big plain R grade lambs coming to more money on the dead.

As an aside, apparently Dunbia/Sainsburys Taste the difference range will be exclusively ewe lambs soon. Now I can understand not wanting tup lambs but is there really much difference between a ewe lamb and a wether?

 

[Sandpit Farm]

Weight pays. I'm sure there are producers of shapey E grade lambs that are dismayed about big plain R grade lambs coming to more money on the dead.

As an aside, apparently Dunbia/Sainsburys Taste the difference range will be exclusively ewe lambs soon. Now I can understand not wanting tup lambs but is there really much difference between a ewe lamb and a wether?

Does it really pay? If they are heavier there are more kgs the get paid for but I'd be surprised if it really does pay compared to those efficient lambs that finish first at 40kg.

 

[hillman]

Weight pays. I'm sure there are producers of shapey E grade lambs that are dismayed about big plain R grade lambs coming to more money on the dead.

As an aside, apparently Dunbia/Sainsburys Taste the difference range will be exclusively ewe lambs soon. Now I can understand not wanting tup lambs but is there really much difference between a ewe lamb and a wether?

Oooh that's interesting, keep us posted on that one

Supermarkets prefer Rgrade lambs as consistent cuts and most lamb ends up there , it's the live trade that seems to prefer the fancy bums why ?

 

[andybk]

EUROP does reward loin as well as hindquarters, just maybe not in proportion to the the market value of the different cuts. A rounded leg also gets a higher grade, but it doesn't necessarily have a higher yield of lean meat than a longer leg joint. For example, a Beltex has a very rounded and pronounced hindquarter, but it doesn't extend as far down the leg as that on a well fleshed Texel or Charollais.

I would also question whether a man looking at sheep coming past on a conveyor at the speed that modern abattoir throughputs dictate, can really give an objective assessment of shape, but that's a different argument.

so do you think if we move to yield payments, those big donkeys with very average fleshing and high growth rates , in the sale ring will be a better buy for a ram , in future ?

 

[Nithsdale]

Oooh that's interesting, keep us posted on that one

Supermarkets prefer Rgrade lambs as consistent cuts and most lamb ends up there , it's the live trade that seems to prefer the fancy bums why ?

Because they can 'see' what they are buying

 

[Hilly]

In times of plenty getting paid for quantity, make you own mind up my mind says it was out dated in the 60`s.

 

[gatepost]

Weight pays. I'm sure there are producers of shapey E grade lambs that are dismayed about big plain R grade lambs coming to more money on the dead.

As an aside, apparently Dunbia/Sainsburys Taste the difference range will be exclusively ewe lambs soon. Now I can understand not wanting tup lambs but is there really much difference between a ewe lamb and a wether?

Weight for weight they don't do they? 21kg of anything on a flat rate is the same, and on a grid ?

 

[gatepost]

Not sure what the answer is, VIA or grid, the trade/consumer don't want shoulders, so in theory a long loin with volume and a decent gigot as that's the only lump of meat on a lamb that can be turned into things other than a joint, we need to breed sheep with the most yield in the value cuts, not based on overall meat yield.

 

[neilo]

Not sure what the answer is, VIA or grid, the trade/consumer don't want shoulders, so in theory a long loin with volume and a decent gigot as that's the only lump of meat on a lamb that can be turned into things other than a joint, we need to breed sheep with the most yield in the value cuts, not based on overall meat yield.

Something long and wedge shaped, with a good loin?

 

[neilo]

so do you think if we move to yield payments, those big donkeys with very average fleshing and high growth rates , in the sale ring will be a better buy for a ram , in future ?

Growth rate has always been important, as @Global ovine keeps telling us. High growth rate without fleshing at slaughter weights, that's a different matter of course, although what is 'finished'. The supermarkets might be quite happy with a fat class 2, whereas I suspect you (and I) would consider it under finished.

RamCompare will likely throw up some interesting points on that, and I suspect the results will say that time to slaughter is more important economically than any existing premiums on a E or U grade.

 

[andybk]

Growth rate has always been important, as @Global ovine keeps telling us. High growth rate without fleshing at slaughter weights, that's a different matter of course, although what is 'finished'. The supermarkets might be quite happy with a fat class 2, whereas I suspect you (and I) would consider it under finished.

RamCompare will likely throw up some interesting points on that, and I suspect the results will say that time to slaughter is more important economically than any existing premiums on a E or U grade.

yes i cottoned on to that , have selected on that first and looked at good 8 week index , (milk and fat on ewe) but interestingly g/r has nothing to do with mature size upto killing weight , i just wondered if we moved to yield payments bigger cuts might be more profitable if they can be cut down , even if they take longer to get there .As mentioned above leg steak is gaining popularity over chop , so maybe those huge french texels would be the next thing

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Growth rate has always been important, as @Global ovine keeps telling us. High growth rate without fleshing at slaughter weights, that's a different matter of course, although what is 'finished'. The supermarkets might be quite happy with a fat class 2, whereas I suspect you (and I) would consider it under finished.

RamCompare will likely throw up some interesting points on that, and I suspect the results will say that time to slaughter is more important economically than any existing premiums on a E or U grade.

Abattoir might be happy with a 2 but we might not be so happy with the ko % if they're all 2s

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Time they paid on eating quality