Euthanasia

[Pond digger]

You are never dead. It's too late to repent when you are dead.You have a soul which will live on for ever. You cannot commit a sin if you don't have a religion!! You really believe that?

You seem to contradict yourself in the first two sentences: surely if you're never dead then you can always repent? Not that I believe that taking your own life is sinful: its yours to do as you wish with. In this day and age, religion should be irrelevant to such discussion.

The decision to end life is a personal choice; the contentious issue is-should others ever be allowed to make that decision on your behalf if you're incapable. I would need to have known the person intimately, to ever consider making such a decision: I hope I'm never in that position.

 

[Farmerdunk]

You seem to contradict yourself in the first two sentences: surely if you're never dead then you can always repent? Not that I believe that taking your own life is sinful: its yours to do as you wish with. In this day and age, religion should be irrelevant to such discussion.

The decision to end life is a personal choice; the contentious issue is-should others ever be allowed to make that decision on your behalf if you're incapable. I would need to have known the person intimately, to ever consider making such a decision: I hope I'm never in that position.

When you die here on earth your body dies, but you soul lives forever, which will either be in heaven or hell.
So when you die it is to late to repent but your soul will live on.

 

[Pond digger]

When you die here on earth your body dies, but you soul lives forever, which will either be in heaven or hell.
So when you die it is to late to repent but your soul will live on.

Cant your soul repent?

 

[Billhook]

Cant your soul repent?

 

[Pond digger]

Couldn't agree more with Mr Fry: a creator must be responsible for their creations; even for the unintended consequences. However, I'm curious to know how a believer sees it.

 

[Farmerdunk]

Truly shocking by Mr Fry. He may be intelligent but what his thoughts on God are utterly wrong. It's not Gods fault that kids have bone cancer, it's yours Mr Fry and every other person who has lived on this earth. It's called sin.

 

[Pond digger]

Truly shocking by Mr Fry. He may be intelligent but what his thoughts on God are utterly wrong. It's not Gods fault that kids have bone cancer, it's yours Mr Fry and every other person who has lived on this earth. It's called sin.

Well, that's the end of that conversation; you're an idiot!

 

[Farmerdunk]

Sticks and stones....

 

[Pond digger]

Sticks and stones....

Sorry: I'll say no more.

 

[Pasty]

Truly shocking by Mr Fry. He may be intelligent but what his thoughts on God are utterly wrong. It's not Gods fault that kids have bone cancer, it's yours Mr Fry and every other person who has lived on this earth. It's called sin.

Seems a bit harsh to punish a child with bone cancer. We thought the cane was bad when I was a lad. What sin could a child commit which would justify giving them bone cancer? Impure thoughts? Over fiddling with their bits? Finding rude words amusing? Or is it actually a punishment for the sins of their parents. Or a general punishment for all humanity. If that is so, why not punish the actual sinners? Give them bone cancer. Job done.

 

[alex04w]

Hebrews 9 v 27 tells us - It is appointed unto man once to die, but after this the judgment.

It does not say that you die once but have many judgments and can chose the result you like best. The judgement is not about how much money you made or whether or not you were better than your neighbour. You are judged on whether you died in Christ (and go to heaven) or died in your sins (and go to everlasting punishment).

Acts 3 v 19 says - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that you sins may be blotted out.

If you believe in Christ and trust in Him, you shall be saved and be found in Him at judgment day. Without Him you remain in your sins.

Those like Mr fry like to try and be smart and blame God for sin and suffering. Romans 5 v 12 tells us - As by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men. John 8 v 44 tells us that the devil was a murdered from the beginning. Psalm 51 v 5 tells us we are born in sin. Therefore a child is a sinner by nature, even if not immediately by practice.

So as already said on this thread, you have this life to repent and after death your eternal destiny is sealed.

Deuteronomy 32 v 29 - Oh that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end.

 

[Pond digger]

Hebrews 9 v 27 tells us - It is appointed unto man once to die, but after this the judgment.

It does not say that you die once but have many judgments and can chose the result you like best. The judgement is not about how much money you made or whether or not you were better than your neighbour. You are judged on whether you died in Christ (and go to heaven) or died in your sins (and go to everlasting punishment).

Acts 3 v 19 says - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that you sins may be blotted out.

If you believe in Christ and trust in Him, you shall be saved and be found in Him at judgment day. Without Him you remain in your sins.

Those like Mr fry like to try and be smart and blame God for sin and suffering. Romans 5 v 12 tells us - As by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men. John 8 v 44 tells us that the devil was a murdered from the beginning. Psalm 51 v 5 tells us we are born in sin. Therefore a child is a sinner by nature, even if not immediately by practice.

So as already said on this thread, you have this life to repent and after death your eternal destiny is sealed.

Deuteronomy 32 v 29 - Oh that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end.

Well of course it's Gods fault, he made us what we are according to the bible-bashers. Surely God can't have it all ways; the creator must be responsible for his creations. Mr Fry is only applying logic to the issue; it's not his fault that religious belief is nonsensical.

It beggars belief that in these enlightened times people are still spouting such mumbo- jumbo. All the pain and suffering that has been inflicted and endured in the name of religion: it boils my blood that the worship of mythical deities cause such misery.

 

[Old McDonald]

@oldmcdonald, we as a family attend a strict baptist chapel. Over the country I'm guessing there are roughly 100 chapels that belong to the denomination.
I will try to explain the above quote again. When you die, you body returns to dust, buried or cremated,(we believe in burial) but your soul will either live in heaven or hell forever.
If you want to look at some online stuff, Try Chippenham, Luton, Oakington chapel websites. They will hopefully tell you more than I could ever say.

I have now had an opportunity to read more about your faith, especially the Articles of Faith. I read them in exactly the same way as all other religions. You have no tolerance whatsoever for those of other faiths. I am particularly surprised at you attitude towards Jews. They are not a religious sect towards which I have any empathy, but to specifically list them in your Articles seems at the very least courageous.

Atheists such as I are quite happy that you all believe whatever you believe, but your faith, and as I say, other faiths, condemn anyone who does not agree with their own faith. At the very best only one of you can be correct. The rest have to be incorrect. You all believe you are the true religion. We believe that one of you are.

Surely it is wrong to attempt to convince children that this planet and everything on it was created in 6 x 24 hour days. How anyone can believe that is beyond me.

I accept that Darwin was also a Creationist, but at least he tried to rationalise how the world had evolved since the supposed "Creation".

Returning to the topic, I believe that choosing to take one's own life is a choice for the individual. There is no sin. Sin can only apply to those who believe in a supreme being, a heaven and hell, and a newly born babe as being sinful. Shame on you all for thinking that a newly born child is a sinner. It is not just your faith, but many others.

Your Articles also imply that only Baptists can be in heaven, so, to prevent overcrowding, it is probably best that you permit the rest of us to continue on our own non-Baptist way.

 

[Billhook]

Coming from Tennyson Country here i was always amused by the great man recounting a story of a local farmer, incandescent with rage, jumping up and down claiming that the Baptists had poisoned all of his cows by washing all their sins into the pond in the field his cattle drank from.

 

[New Puritan]

The Stephen Fry response is good, but he may have watched the 1993 Australian film "Bad Boy Bubby" at some point prior to giving his answer:

 

[Billhook]

I suppose the ultimate logic is that if God created everything, he must have created evil as well.

 

[Pond digger]

I suppose the ultimate logic is that if God created everything, he must have created evil as well.

Indeed: so the only conclusion can be that such a creator must be a sadistic nutter, so why such adoration?

If mankind spent more time worshipping life itself rather than mythical deities, the world would be a much nicer place.

 

[Farmerdunk]

Your Articles also imply that only Baptists can be in heaven, so, to prevent overcrowding, it is probably best that you permit the rest of us to continue on our own non-Baptist way.

Can you tell me where that is in the Articles?

 

[Farmerdunk]

The notion that only Baptists only go to heaven is wrong.
One of the dying thiefs next to Jesus when they were cruixfied was not a baptist.You don't have to be baptised to go to heaven.

Are baptists narrow minded? My answer in general speaking is yes.
The bible says very clearly that it is a narrow way to heaven.
"Strait is the gate,and narrow is the way,which leadeth unto life,and few be there that find it. Matthew 7:14.

 

[Old McDonald]

Can you tell me where that is in the Articles?

I spent several hours reading various links and several different versions of your Articles of Faith. I am not going to go searching through them all again to find the couple which led me to make my post. I posted that the Articles (perhaps only some and not all, as they are different for different churches) implied that only "true believers" (from which I interpreted "Baptists") would rejoice in Heaven. If that is not the case, then it matters not to me because I am certain there is no Heaven or Hell.

I still think it is damnable that a religion should teach young children the nonsense that the world was created in 6 days - literally. I could perhaps accept Darwin's idea from those who believe in a creation.

Three things I did not find out was whether you are allowed to consume acohol and gamble; and when the world was supposedly created. Are you like the JW who think it was 6000 years ago?