Even Even more classic pics !!!!

[blackbob]

@jakeboy would the L4 in the 780 possibly be original? Must be an early 50's engine, have seen an E27N Major with one (although that doesn't prove anything, it could have been transplanted at any time).

Re the Marshall, you said the word.. Wow!
I didn't know what it was, but I suppose it couldn't be
I would somewhere have 'Old Tractor' mags with articles about the Marshall combine and also the Austin/Newage 6-cylinder engines in M-H and M-F combines, can dig them out sometime if anyone interested, I would have expected copyright problems with scanning/posting things here but I've done it with old FW pages and not been sued.. yet..

PS I don't know if this photo is really worth contributing to this thread, it is 1977 and my uncles had just bought a diesel 788 to replace their old tvo, that's me on the 'new' one (so you can't blame me for having camera shake!)

 

[jakeboy]

@jakeboy would the L4 in the 780 possibly be original? Must be an early 50's engine, have seen an E27N Major with one (although that doesn't prove anything, it could have been transplanted at any time).

Re the Marshall, you said the word.. Wow!
I would somewhere have 'Old Tractor' mags with articles about the Marshall combine and also the Austin/Newage 6-cylinder engines in M-H and M-F combines, can dig them out sometime if anyone interested, I would have expected copyright problems with scanning/posting things here but I've done it with old FW pages and not been sued.. yet..

 

[jakeboy]

You could be right blackbob I was not aware that the first 780s in 53 had the 4 cylinder diesel! I suppose we could check the serial number? On engine!

 

[two-cylinder]

726's came with either an Austin Newage 6 cylinder or a Morris Commercial 4 cylinder, and as someone else has added the fuel tank was under the seat.
Really late 726's had the 780 style cushion seat and a straight back axle.

 

[Richard Devon]

Old man had a 780 special with the 6cyl newage engine in it

 

[blackbob]

@spoton I guess that Marshall is the same one as this, from 'Old Tractor' March 2005?

 

[Sussex Martin]

I have a set of rear wheel weights that came off an old Massey combine that we scrapped a number of years ago if anyone would like them.
I am a sentimental old bugger and have been finding excuses every time I have a scrap run and have been moving them about the yard for close on 20 years. If someone wanted them for a restoration I would donate them free of charge, they are a bit heavy however and may be impracticle to send by courier.
They come off a 6ft cut Massey Harris with a petrol/TVO engine, it had no hydraulics and to lift the table you had a big cast iron wheel to turn, I used it for a couple of seasons back in the mid 70s to cut about 5acres. I cannot for the life of me remember what model it was.
I feel really guilty now reading this thread as it would probably be older than those pictured and would have been a quite easy restoration .

 

[76masseyman]

I have a set of rear wheel weights that came off an old Massey combine that we scrapped a number of years ago if anyone would like them.
I am a sentimental old bugger and have been finding excuses every time I have a scrap run and have been moving them about the yard for close on 20 years. If someone wanted them for a restoration I would donate them free of charge, they are a bit heavy however and may be impracticle to send by courier.
They come off a 6ft cut Massey Harris with a petrol/TVO engine, it had no hydraulics and to lift the table you had a big cast iron wheel to turn, I used it for a couple of seasons back in the mid 70s to cut about 5acres. I cannot for the life of me remember what model it was.
I feel really guilty now reading this thread as it would probably be older than those pictured and would have been a quite easy restoration .

@jakeboy ?

 

[Henarar]

I have a fuel tank for a 780 if you need one

 

[colhonk]

I have a fuel tank, cast wheel centre`s and the L4 engine out of the MH 780 special that we had after the 6 cyl 726`s. (don`t know why). we also had a Marshall combine, but it was a 6ft cut trailed.

 

[old vin ag]

Hi

I have a set of rear wheel weights that came off an old Massey combine that we scrapped a number of years ago if anyone would like them.
I am a sentimental old bugger and have been finding excuses every time I have a scrap run and have been moving them about the yard for close on 20 years. If someone wanted them for a restoration I would donate them free of charge, they are a bit heavy however and may be impracticle to send by courier.
They come off a 6ft cut Massey Harris with a petrol/TVO engine, it had no hydraulics and to lift the table you had a big cast iron wheel to turn, I used it for a couple of seasons back in the mid 70s to cut about 5acres. I cannot for the life of me remember what model it was.
I feel really guilty now reading this thread as it would probably be older than those pictured and would have been a quite easy restoration .

The model your rear wheel weights came off was the Massey Harris 735 first produced in about 1955/56. Production continued into the Massey Ferguson era, when it was then badged as the Massey Ferguson 735.
What is not commonly known is that there was quite a struggle over this machine between Harry Fergusons people and the Massey Harris people at Kilmarnock. Reason for this was that Coventry was testing a combine that had been built that wrapped around a little Grey Ferguson. Alternatively Masey Harris believed a little Self Propelled was the way forward as production was ending with there trailed MH 750 so they had been working on this scaled down version of a 726/780 for a while.As there machines were harvesting around 80% of all the combined cereals in the UK and a very large amount of the world crop having a Coventry boy suggesting he could build a combine that was carried by a little tractor was not going to be accepted easily.
Now as history shows the engineers in Scotland were pretty well right. Even with a reduction box on the tractor I don't think it would have been a success considering as well all the other changes needed to the tractor.
At very considerable cost the late John Moffitt made a great copy of the Ferguson combine for the 50th Anniversary of the T E 20 in 1996 and this item is now in The Paul Rackham Collection near Thetford in Norfolk.
Before it went to Thetford I took it to the King of Combines Mr Ron Knight, as he had hoped that it could be put to work at one of his Casterton events, but there was far too much to alter that the plan was abandoned, and when Ron gives up you know it probably isn't possible at all.

 

[two-cylinder]

The 735 is regarded by those who worked at MF as the combine that lost Massey domination of the UK market.
For the time spent on development would have been better spent building a model bigger than the 780 and not a smaller one.

This let Ransomes in with the 902 and Class in with the Matador, as it was MF decided to import the dreadful 892 from France that turned out to be a disaster and lost sales to the competition.
Had Massey ignored the 735 market slot and focussed on getting a big model to launch in 56/57 they could have continued to dominate the market into the Sixties.
As it was the 735 initially found a few homes but it's small capacity meant most potential buyers were better buying a nearly new example of a 780 for the same money!

 

[jakeboy]

The 735 is regarded by those who worked at MF as the combine that lost Massey domination of the UK market.
For the time spent on development would have been better spent building a model bigger than the 780 and not a smaller one.

This let Ransomes in with the 902 and Class in with the Matador, as it was MF decided to import the dreadful 892 from France that turned out to be a disaster and lost sales to the competition.
Had Massey ignored the 735 market slot and focussed on getting a big model to launch in 56/57 they could have continued to dominate the market into the Sixties.
As it was the 735 initially found a few homes but it's small capacity meant most potential buyers were better buying a nearly new example of a 780 for the same money!

The early sixties Ransomes and even class, were particularly small fry challengers to Massey Dominance, for sure specific models were a big disappointment, but with less models today on offer I say they have more to worry about Agco that is!!
Massey Ferguson at that time was offering different model combines to the many and not specialising in supplying to the few!! The biggest loss of business for Massey combines probably came about in 67/68 the strikes at Kilmarnock the failure to supply enough combines to customers who had pre ordered the previous year!! I have interviewed a sales manager who bought several hundred combines every season, to supply various dealerships throughout the north east, he had to run the gauntlet of hate from faithful loyal customers who were facing there harvests sharing combines with several other farms as there trade ins had been disposed off the previous Autumn!! He was even threatened with a shotgun in his office by one desperate large estate owner!! Subsequent raids on Kilmarnock with heavys and low loaders were met with stiff resistance and also many machines rendered inoperable by vandalism!! Couple this to a drastic change at the top of the management structure, which were to prove to little much to late! Customers who were loyal to Massey suddenly changed colour to brands that were not at that time well supported in there area!! Many will say they had a good run here and in other countries, and there time was up, pretty much like class now?? Being a market leading company comes with a he'll of a lot of expense.
One thing Massey did do was take a laborious Labour intensive chore, and offer the average farmer a stepping stone to a new era in crop harvesting!!
In my biased opinion Massey brought more to the party than any other brand then, or even now! Look around a modern combine and a lot of its pedigree came from one stable! There me tin hats gone on!! Regards all

 

[two-cylinder]

Massey lost the UK combine market for many reasons, but in the first instance they had nothing new to offer the large farmer between 1953- 780's launch and the 500 in 62, apart from the maligned 892.
Many of our neighbours who's had 21's 726's and 780's left MF in this period to buy Ransomes 902's, Matador's and Claeys 103's simply because they offered bigger outputs. None of these customers returned to MF.
The 500 chassis wasn't big enough either and in '71 MF came up with the 625, - just a widened 500 chassis which had durability problems from day one! Meanwhile Class had launched the Dominator!
MF combine development was always too little too late, then they brought in the 760 from Canada which initially was unsuitable for UK conditions.
The homologation of the 700 series was completed by MF's biggest dealer network- Eastern Tractors in Essex and the fitters of the time have many stories to tell!
The end of classic MF combines game in the Eighties when the company was almost broke and couldn't afford to develop a new line, so bought Dronningborg instead and then you know what- they did exactly the same thing again 20 years later and closed that company down and bought Laverda.
Don't get me wrong- I like MF combines but MF has let their customers down badly all along the way. Today those of us who use MF combines have to put up with poor parts backup- obsolete parts , and long waits for the bits that are in stock.

 

[John 1594]

Massey lost the UK combine market for many reasons, but in the first instance they had nothing new to offer the large farmer between 1953- 780's launch and the 500 in 62, apart from the maligned 892.
Many of our neighbours who's had 21's 726's and 780's left MF in this period to buy Ransomes 902's, Matador's and Claeys 103's simply because they offered bigger outputs. None of these customers returned to MF.
The 500 chassis wasn't big enough either and in '71 MF came up with the 625, - just a widened 500 chassis which had durability problems from day one! Meanwhile Class had launched the Dominator!
MF combine development was always too little too late, then they brought in the 760 from Canada which initially was unsuitable for UK conditions.
The homologation of the 700 series was completed by MF's biggest dealer network- Eastern Tractors in Essex and the fitters of the time have many stories to tell!
The end of classic MF combines game in the Eighties when the company was almost broke and couldn't afford to develop a new line, so bought Dronningborg instead and then you know what- they did exactly the same thing again 20 years later and closed that company down and bought Laverda.
Don't get me wrong- I like MF combines but MF has let their customers down badly all along the way. Today those of us who use MF combines have to put up with poor parts backup- obsolete parts , and long waits for the bits that are in stock.

while rumagging in a local part supplier/tractor breakers stores i came across a huge heap of parts removed from various MFs he used to break for the engines to build irragator pumps. Needless to say i soon snapped those up, its finds like that that keep these old machines going!

 

[Exfarmer]

MF problems were that it continually tried to take US designs and foist them on European customers.
This was based on their belief in a world pattern being the best way to reduce manufacturing costs.
All of their combines were designed for prairie conditions. They gained sales early due to the fact there was little competition and the 726 and 780's were tough little machines. The competition at the time also American built had inherited a very bad reputation from machines imported. During the war.
This coupled with the machinations of the unions in The Scottish plant ensured that the product even when suitably adapted, were no match for the competition.
Introducing the 500 series could have given them a huge boost but sadly build quality was often very poor resulting in endless breakdowns and frustration

 

[two-cylinder]

All factories in Britain suffered from industrial disputes in the 50s to 80s, but inevitably some were worse than others!
One local MF rep got in hot water having sold trade-ins, only to find the factory could not supply new ones before harvest due to a strike!
It had reprecussions right down the chain!

 

[El arado]

Anyone remember the Fisher Humphries 24ft, don't think there were any in UK, but as a teenager it was my dream to drive one.

 

[jakeboy]

Massey lost the UK combine market for many reasons, but in the first instance they had nothing new to offer the large farmer between 1953- 780's launch and the 500 in 62, apart from the maligned 892.
Many of our neighbours who's had 21's 726's and 780's left MF in this period to buy Ransomes 902's, Matador's and Claeys 103's simply because they offered bigger outputs. None of these customers returned to MF.
The 500 chassis wasn't big enough either and in '71 MF came up with the 625, - just a widened 500 chassis which had durability problems from day one! Meanwhile Class had launched the Dominator!
MF combine development was always too little too late, then they brought in the 760 from Canada which initially was unsuitable for UK conditions.
The homologation of the 700 series was completed by MF's biggest dealer network- Eastern Tractors in Essex and the fitters of the time have many stories to tell!
The end of classic MF combines game in the Eighties when the company was almost broke and couldn't afford to develop a new line, so bought Dronningborg instead and then you know what- they did exactly the same thing again 20 years later and closed that company down and bought Laverda.
Don't get me wrong- I like MF combines but MF has let their customers down badly all along the way. Today those of us who use MF combines have to put up with poor parts backup- obsolete parts , and long waits for the bits that are in stock.

I'm quite surprised to hear you still run Massey Combines, after the comments that as a company they let there customers down not only today but in the last 3 decades! For sure today I agree they are somewhat a busted flush!! Your Comments regarding the 700 series you are quite correct that this model was never suited to the European markets! But the World markets and there own back yard ,which at that time was very considerable! We like to think here in the Uk we are a major force in the big scheme of things but sadly this is not the case and never has been! For sure we have a challenging climate and some of the best farming expertise anywhere! But what Massey did was adapt the machines for our crops and conditions, it took time but as an ailing company they did there best and the many users of what models are left today of the 700/800 series to which I am one will be quite content to carry on using them instead of paying a kings ransom, to use in a business which doesn't justify that expenditure unfortunately, if I had to sum up this company's history, well they allowed the small to medium size farm to which there was many (unlike now) to own a combine that did the job, was well supported by dealers and despite the competition which I have to agree was in some respects better built, I think the competition at that time would of enjoyed that position at that time!
Being Market leader isn't always a good thing however pop into any class dealership today and ask how long this company will remain in German hands!?
The comments about machines not being big enough at that time! Well this problem is an on going one amongst big arable growers at least the push for larger equipment is a historic one it ain't never big enough I guess ,but on my travels I have seen the extent of these big computerised marvels! Samples I would be embarrassed to have in me shed, and losses that I think would be quite unacceptable to us small time growers here in the paddocks of Somerset!! Kind regards jakeboy.

 

[old vin ag]

Anyone remember the Fisher Humphries 24ft, don't think there were any in UK, but as a teenager it was my dream to drive one.

Well El arado I have to say I think you could be mistaken that a Fisher Humphires 24ft was ever on the drawing board, or could have been actually been built. I realise that it was claimed that the F H Victory combine was the largest combine in the world as was stated in marketing publications during the early years of manufacture in the late 60's and early 1970's,but working at the only factory making Fisher Humpries combines at Wootton Bassett, Wiltshire.your DREAM I afraid was not something I ever heard about. We only made a folding header in two sizes of 14ft and 18ft.To fold up header halves of 12ft would have required big changes, making machine overall height of around 14ft or even 15ft and to counter balance the extra header weight would have needed a lot more than just filling the rear axle with concrete as we did already.
If you have some more information I'll be very pleased to read about it.