Ewe lambs from ewe lambs

Bob the beef

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Scot Borders
Seem to remember few weeks back someone saying on a thread that they would never keep the the ewe lamb from a ewe lamb for breeding. I have done this for years with no obvious problem.
Got a good draft of ewe lambs from some cheviot ewe lambs that will make good ewes, and I can't see any reason not to keep them.

Can anyone inform me otherwise?
 

Green farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
I always thought that if put to ram only the more fertile ewes lambs got pregnant. So keeping ewe lambs out of them be the way to go in my books ?
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Aslong as you do them well enough and they grow into decent sheep - there will be nothing wrong with them.

I did it for a few years when 'fast tracking' crossing into my Lleyns. I just kept the best ones. They've done fine.
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
I have ewe lamb lambs relacements going back a good few generations. The ewe lambs are mothers the 2 tooth are grandmothers the 4 tooth are great grandmothers the 6 tooths are great great grandmothets etc etc.... no problems as long as they are big enough. After weaning i dont even know the difference all pure lleyn ewe lambs go in a gang together and anything big enough goes to the ram doesnt matter who their mother is. Its working well, the ewe lambs get better mothers every year (y)
 
Some of mine had to rear twins this year as just didn't have ewes to foster on. Some do look thin but one of my lleyns you wouldn't know and lambs have grown at flock average so will be keeping her ewe lamb and the ones with singles have had really good growth rates in their lambs. Worry about the stress on the bags for twins but looking good so far.
 

JD-Kid

Member
just scaned here a while ago and the highest % of hoggets in lamb were ewe lambs kept from hoggets
they were feed well on mum but once weaned had to make the grade like every one else

yes fast way to make gains as cycleing geans around faster also fastest way to fork up a flock or to breed out some trates that maybe handy

lambing hoggets pays to feed them well and wean early to let them pick back up
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
The only downside I can see, is that you aren't selecting for longevity and it will reduce your selection pressure on functionality, as the dams will have had less chance to express those problems.

On balance, more to be gained than lost by it, I'd have thought.
 
I think it was @Global ovine had found that ewe lambs reared by hogs under performed compared to their full sisters reared by ewes.


I recommend retaining replacement breeding ewes from dams that were ewe lambs at the time. These should be the best generation productively only if the sires introduced to the flock were selected on meaningful data. However, longevity doesn't come into that equation, as those oldest dams certainly have passed a large number of annual tests to still be present in the breeding flock.
What @wee man has pointed to is probably the result of epigenetics. This is an environmental influence on an embryo that triggers a genetic change which can be measured across the generations into the future.
In my Romney flock of 2000 ewes and 800 ewe lambs mated annually, all fully recorded and considered the "cleanest' set of data collected over more than 20 years, hence used for validation by geneticists. Dr. Peter Amer of AbacusBio Ltd. did several studies. One showed a significant difference in the lamb mortality over a ewes lifetime if she herself was born out of a ewe lamb. However sisters born out of the same dams as mature ewes, had lower mortality in their lambs. I never noticed the difference, but it showed through in the data once pull out for examination. I probably culled many of these ewes in subsequent years because of their lower "Survival" BV, as the difference was 13% worse than those ewes born out of mature dams.
The difference is too great for it to be a behavioral, or a learned trait, e.g. "mum mucked around too long when I was born, therefore I don't yet know what good mothering is", as that situation would exist for most assisted lambings where dams suffer a greater degree of birthing trauma and less interested in lambs initially.

There are some very intriguing examples of epigenetics recently discovered that affect the ovulation rates and embryonic mortality of subsequent generations after an environmental change in just one generation. These things fall out of large sets of data when the appropriate analysis is applied.
 

baaa

Member
This is interesting. I tend to separate my ewe lambs and put them to the tups at 18 months. This year they have got a bit fat. Next year I am planning to put them to the tup at 12 months and see what happens. Hoping to lamb more than once a year. I have left them in with the ewes before but I felt that it brought them down too much.
 

Woolly

Member
Location
W Wales
I recommend retaining replacement breeding ewes from dams that were ewe lambs at the time. .....

However sisters born out of the same dams as mature ewes, had lower mortality in their lambs.
These statements appear contradictory..... or have I missed something?

Expanding the discussion a bit, I've heard it said that you should select stock rams from your oldest ewes, because they suit your system best. Perhaps that should be caveated with 'other things being equal' which of course they seldom are.

Comments appreciated!
 
Last edited:

Ysgythan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ammanford
Breeding ewe lambs out of ewe lambs out of ewe lambs is a program for breeding bantams long term. Fine if you don't want a high mature weight anyway, but then you're extending the days to slaughter, unless you're relying on the ram for that, in which case you're putting a bigger ram on a smaller ewe...
 
These statements appear contradictory..... or have I missed something?

Expanding the discussion a bit, I've heard it said that you should select stock rams from your oldest ewes, because they suit your system best. Perhaps that should be caveated with 'other things being equal' which of course they seldom are.

Comments appreciated!


Read that first paragraph again and you will see the choice to make depending on your situation.

Replacement rate is the greatest cost to a sheep production system. Replacements bred out of old ewes with proven longevity in that environment are better if the source of genetics are not going forward in the traits that affect profitability. Or, (here's the choice again) if you are sourcing your genetics from a breeder advancing productive traits and increasing functionality (lowering management costs), your younger ewes will be better.
Firstly think about which traits you want to see improved in the flock and source your replacements from a the age groups that have more of those advantages (be it growth, ease of lambing, resistance to disease, lambing % etc.).
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 77 43.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 62 35.0%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 28 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,286
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top