Ewe nuts

[GreenerGrass]

Right, I've fallen into the trap of just looking at the headlines and price.

These four are ones I've fed. Aside from one being a 16% nut one an 18% (this is theand the other two 17% is there much to split them, and which is the pick of the litter

 

[Bury the Trash]

Right, I've fallen into the trap of just looking at the headlines and price.

These four are ones I've fed. Aside from one being a 16% nut one an18% (this is theand the other two 17% is there much to split them, and which is the pick of the litter

I fancy n0 3 with its maize , does that come from the Americas?I wonder ... oh well anyway that's the one I'd go for especially if I was feeding ewes out side or on decent forage protein wise , ie silage as for sure being organic it will have plenty of clover in


The use of 'In conversion ' stuff noted

 

[tepapa]

I agree that it would be best to chose a ration to supplement your forage, but how much can you rely on results of a forage test?
Maybe I’m getting old and jaded, but I have come to taking results with either a pinch of salt, or so much salt that I ignore them! I’ve had a few results in recent years that have been so far off where the forage obviously is, that they are ridiculous, particularly where there is clover in the sward (as must often be the case on beef & sheep farms?).

As an example, I had a test result on some round bales this Autumn, taken with a core sampler. The grass was a first year PRG reseed with lots of white & balansa clover in it. I had purposefully let the grass get just past flowering, to soak up the sap from the balansa, but not ridiculously old or stemmy. It came back at 10 ME and 7%CP! It was so far out as to be laughable and, if the testing hadn’t been foc I would have insisted it was redone (instead of just ignoring it). I have fed all those bales to my early lambers, who have cleared it enthusiastically and milked like stink on less feed than normal (as posted previously).

I’ve come to the conclusion that, particularly where the forage contains clover, I will endeavour to make as good forage as I can, ignore any test results, and work rations out (on a fag packet) based on ‘average’ quality silage. That’ll be somewhere about right ime.

That'll be because your sample will have been tested by NIR as it's quick and cheap, but due to the high amount of protein they should have used the old fashioned wet chemistry. You can't say analysis doesn't work because the person offering the free sample didn't test it correctly.

But your theory isn't far wrong, you could maybe save a little extra feed but buying a high quality soya feed fed with a good forage will do better than just feeding the same amount of feed X that we've brought for last 20 years of the same supplier because it has 'premium nut' that's what dad did.

 

[tepapa]

Right, I've fallen into the trap of just looking at the headlines and price.

These four are ones I've fed. Aside from one being a 16% nut one an 18% (this is theand the other two 17% is there much to split them, and which is the pick of the litter

I take it were feeding it to inlamb ewes?

I'd go no:4 for the soya inclusion at 20% which is number 2 on the list but you'll have to check energy levels of your ration. No:4 is the only one with a proper breakdown and you can see energy is only 10.7ME. You'd normally expect energy to be about 12.5ME so if you worked the ration out on that basis you may be lacking a little especially on a high protein forage so additional energy may be required. Just to point out that you don't know the ME of the other 3 as they haven't told you as it's not a legal requirement.

 

[neilo]

That'll be because your sample will have been tested by NIR as it's quick and cheap, but due to the high amount of protein they should have used the old fashioned wet chemistry. You can't say analysis doesn't work because the person offering the free sample didn't test it correctly.

But your theory isn't far wrong, you could maybe save a little extra feed but buying a high quality soya feed fed with a good forage will do better than just feeding the same amount of feed X that we've brought for last 20 years of the same supplier because it has 'premium nut' that's what dad did.

Yes, it was done (through Farming Connect) by NIR. When I questioned it, they did say they could look at retesting it by wet chemistry but I didn’t pursue it. There were only 45 bales and I had started feeding it by then.

I understand the local grassland society use NIR for the first round, with wet chemistry only used for the regional rounds. That’s why I don’t bother entering any more, as it makes no account for clover, but NIR is the most commonly used analysis method, rendering that pinch of salt necessary imo.

I would suggest that almost every silage analysis that people obtain will be done by NIR, unless they get it done independently and make a point of paying extra for wet chemistry.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I take it were feeding it to inlamb ewes?

I'd go no:4 for the soya inclusion at 20% which is number 2 on the list but you'll have to check energy levels of your ration. No:4 is the only one with a proper breakdown and you can see energy is only 10.7ME. You'd normally expect energy to be about 12.5ME so if you worked the ration out on that basis you may be lacking a little especially on a high protein forage so additional energy may be required. Just to point out that you don't know the ME of the other 3 as they haven't told you as it's not a legal requirement.

That's why I went for no.3
Just phone up molevalley farmers and they will tell you the ME of it.

If they're on but lower protein forage ie hay, ..albeit good hay, then you use no.2 .

 

[neilo]

Right, I've fallen into the trap of just looking at the headlines and price.

These four are ones I've fed. Aside from one being a 16% nut one an 18% (this is theand the other two 17% is there much to split them, and which is the pick of the litter

I’d go for number 4 as well as it has a high level of quality protein, but an ME of 10.7 is dreadfully low and I’m struggling to see what’s dragged it that low. Wheat, Soya and Lucerne would all be a good bit higher wouldn’t they, although the oatmeal (especially organic) will be like shredded cardboard.

I’m guessing they are all £450/t+ as well.

 

[tepapa]

That's why I went for no.3
Just phone up molevalley farmers and they will tell you the ME of it.

If they're on but lower protein forage ie hay, ..albeit good hay, then you use no.2 .

Interesting how we think differently . I'd still go no4 but look for availability of a high energy feed to compliment it, possibly organic fodderbeet if any is available at a sensible price. (I'm not sure if you can grow fodderbeet organically with the number of sprays it needs, so possibly sweedes?)

 

[Bury the Trash]

Interesting how we think differently . I'd still go no4 but look for availability of a high energy feed to compliment it, possibly organic fodderbeet if any is available at a sensible price. (I'm not sure if you can grow fodderbeet organically with the number of sprays it needs, so possibly sweedes?)

Yes I understand your thinking.

Fodder beet could well be grown organically, heavy muck application and ploughing pre Christmas. I'm not sure about seed dressings allowable .Then after that slip down the rows with a hoe a few times.
Graze insitu if you're in a not too frost prone area .
Does need thd righg kind of soil mind you, that could be the limiting factor for some.

 

[Dairynut]

I’d go for number 4 as well as it has a high level of quality protein, but an ME of 10.7 is dreadfully low and I’m struggling to see what’s dragged it that low. Wheat, Soya and Lucerne would all be a good bit higher wouldn’t they, although the oatmeal (especially organic) will be like shredded cardboard.

I’m guessing they are all £450/t+ as well.

The ME of 10.7 is most likely per kg freshweight. At the quoted 88% dry matter, this equates to 12.2MJ/kgDM.

 

[neilo]

The ME of 10.7 is most likely per kg freshweight. At the quoted 88% dry matter, this equates to 12.2MJ/kgDM.

You might be right, but would it not normally be quoted on a DM basis? I've never seen ME quoted on fresh weight basis before.

 

[Dairynut]

You might be right, but would it not normally be quoted on a DM basis? I've never seen ME quoted on fresh weight basis before.

It depends. Generally will be formulated on fresh weight but quoted on dry matter basis, possibly because it gives the higher figure and therefore sounds better?? The declarations of crude protein, oils, fibre etc are on fresh weight basis. There are arguments for both ways, but it’s not the end of the world, as long as you know what you’re dealing with and are consistent.

 

[Bury the Trash]

tbf there isn't a lot to choose between them , and i wouldn't be to fussy with either or.

but to be picky ....just having all that 'oatfeed ' ( major in fibre) in doesn't help that one though imo. apart from that its all good concentrated nutrient wise.

 

[Agrivator]

It depends. Generally will be formulated on fresh weight but quoted on dry matter basis, possibly because it gives the higher figure and therefore sounds better?? The declarations of crude protein, oils, fibre etc are on fresh weight basis. There are arguments for both ways, but it’s not the end of the world, as long as you know what you’re dealing with and are consistent.

You are right. Me is always on DM basis. The stated ingredients attached to the label (CP, Fibre, Oil, Ash) are on freshweight basis)

 

[Bury the Trash]

How much cake should I be feeding a twin bearing lleyn gimmer. We have no grass and if it is there it's 101% water....

about 500g , an older ewe with lower bcs could be given up to 750g Lleyn don't need as much conc ime.
Too much will tempt lambing difficulty if over fit,or prolapse problems even.

A good quality fibre source needs to there for them of course, in the run up , quality, not quantity remember.

 

[An ancient git]

Just had first lot of Ewe Rolls ....18% , CF 5.54% , CAsh 7.75%
Desc order .... Wheat , Barley , Hi-pro Soya , Sugar BP , Rape , Wheat feed , Molasses ,CaCo3 , soya oil , vits & mins .
It worked well last year at about 2/3rds of conc input , so worked out cheaper / ewe overall ....

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I hope nobody minds me mithering on this thread, considering I only have a hobby flock, but I’ve been wondering.....

I can buy the odd tonne or two of cereals from any local farm. Wheat, barley, oats even rye.
I can buy bags of soya meal, rolled peas, beet pulp, flaked maize etc from our local feed supplier. I am currently buying Heygates 408 Flockmaster 18 from there and feeding that along with hay, fodder beet and grass.

Considering I only use maybe 2-2.5 tonnes of feed per year, would you get the ingredients and mix your own? It would be very little hassle for me to do that. If so, what would you include?

 

[Jim75]

1/3 oats , sugar beet pulp and dark grains. Add soya closer to lambing. Job done

 

[andybk]

I hope nobody minds me mithering on this thread, considering I only have a hobby flock, but I’ve been wondering.....

I can buy the odd tonne or two of cereals from any local farm. Wheat, barley, oats even rye.
I can buy bags of soya meal, rolled peas, beet pulp, flaked maize etc from our local feed supplier. I am currently buying Heygates 408 Flockmaster 18 from there and feeding that along with hay, fodder beet and grass.

Considering I only use maybe 2-2.5 tonnes of feed per year, would you get the ingredients and mix your own? It would be very little hassle for me to do that. If so, what would you include?

yes easy , as above we used barley , sbp , soya simple but effective ration , maybe some rolled barley for lambs / creep pallets to start (at about 6 weeks old ) add soya as they get older add salt and mins

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Roughly, what ratio would you mix it all?