Ewes, no concentrate

tinsheet

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Somerset
So not to diversify another thread
Edging towards this,
singles get hay/silage adlib
Multiplies get a lb of cake at the moment 6 weeks before lambing with adlib hay/ silage
Would like to cut it out all together, moving to an all forage based system.
Lamb out side in April at present moving from mules to llyens, all permanent pasture presently at 1000ft+ up on the edge of Exmoor,
Thinking of growing forage rape or kale, for ewes to feed from Christmas,
Discuss, by all means shoot me down, but some positive comments / advice would be good,:)(y).
 

Tim W

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Wiltshire
So not to diversify another thread
Edging towards this,
singles get hay/silage adlib
Multiplies get a lb of cake at the moment 6 weeks before lambing with adlib hay/ silage
Would like to cut it out all together, moving to an all forage based system.
Lamb out side in April at present moving from mules to llyens, all permanent pasture presently at 1000ft+ up on the edge of Exmoor,
Thinking of growing forage rape or kale, for ewes to feed from Christmas,
Discuss, by all means shoot me down, but some positive comments / advice would be good,:)(y).
Go for it (y)

I know a man up there that does that , not sure he bothers with the rape/kale though
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I think it's a possibility. I think we do more harm over feeding breeding stock than underfeeding them.

We sometimes get a bit of twin lamb, even feeding cake, but is it because the lambs get bigger than they should be and then can't be supported by the ewe in the last fortnight before lambing, never mind the lambing problems?

We had a "cull" living in the orchard keeling it tidy. Nothing but poor grass all winter. Kept her condition and produced two nice lambs. Not too big so lambed itself, not making big demands on the ewe in late pregnancy. No huge bag trailing on the ground. Doing fine.

Same with the cows. Hay and silage all the way, unless it's a really thin old girl who needs a bit of help.

I think the natural way of it is for these herbivores to build reserves in the summer, run down through winter then lamb onto growing grass in the spring. We mess around with this system at our peril.

We feed stubble turnips prelambing but need to take them off them about three weeks before lambing. I even wonder if we would need the turnips if we concentrated on making better younger silage and hay.
 

digger64

Member
So not to diversify another thread
Edging towards this,
singles get hay/silage adlib
Multiplies get a lb of cake at the moment 6 weeks before lambing with adlib hay/ silage
Would like to cut it out all together, moving to an all forage based system.
Lamb out side in April at present moving from mules to llyens, all permanent pasture presently at 1000ft+ up on the edge of Exmoor,
Thinking of growing forage rape or kale, for ewes to feed from Christmas,
Discuss, by all means shoot me down, but some positive comments / advice would be good,:)(y).
How about some italian ryegrass ?
 

Bones

Member
Location
n Ireland
How about serving your ewes with small type rams ( beltex, charmoise, ) not as sore on ewes ,don't need much feeding as lambs are naturally small, if ewes don't have much milk these types of lambs won't drain a ewe to much on till the milk starts to come ,down sides would be trying to finish small lambs ,up side you will have plenty of live lambs .
 

irish dom

Member
Never feed any here only triplets and ewe lambs carrying twins. When lambing starts feeding stops. Mostly mules but some lleyns. Sheep are away wintered from 1st November to 1st March to build up grass which is the most important cog in the wheel. Grain is for pigs hens and cattle but not sheep IMO
 

GTB

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
All depends on your farm and system. We have a lot of hill grazing which is in Glastir advanced so the sheep come off some of it in October and some in December. We have little choice but to house a lot of sheep otherwise what would we do with them all? However on farms with no hill a forage only system seems to be the way forward. As always overstocking is the sheeps worst enemy.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
If you can keep grass in front of them go for it. Doesn't have to be top quality stuff through the winter, indeed, as hinted in the prolapse thread I suspect too good a doings for them mid/ late winter may be counter productive. You do want good grass in front of them at lambing/ early lactation however imo.
 

S J H

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
Mine only have grass, feed locks if I'm short, but they haven't had them since January. They're not on great grass, I try and keep shut some up early or keep moving them around.

Had a few with twin lamb last year, but that was my fault for trying to get another year out of them.

Mine are mostly tex X mule, mule or scotch half bred suffolks.
 
Location
Devon
How about serving your ewes with small type rams ( beltex, charmoise, ) not as sore on ewes ,don't need much feeding as lambs are naturally small, if ewes don't have much milk these types of lambs won't drain a ewe to much on till the milk starts to come ,down sides would be trying to finish small lambs ,up side you will have plenty of live lambs .

You can get some hellish weather up on Exmoor untill at least the end of April and you need lambs that can survive it, I don't think those breeds would be very suited to the climate.

On a lowland farm a different matter thou.

Ref on feeding grass, it would work if you can keep condition on the ewes from tupping onwards and especially the last few weeks pre lambing, this year it would be okay but 2/3 years ago when the grass turned blue ( well the grass stubble as there was no grass to speak of ) from now untill well into May you will more than likely run into a big problem ref energy levels.
 

GTB

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
I think you always need a plan b up your sleeve. You have to be willing and able to feed something if the grass runs out or if the ewes go too lean.

Our outdoor lambers have been on grass and round bale silage only up until now. We had planned to feed fodder beet in the runup to lambing but the ground has been too wet and slippery to take them out. We've had to bite the bullet now and have put a few Maxx buckets out for the twins. They're looking fit but don't want any probs with twin lamb disease.
 

Bones

Member
Location
n Ireland
So not to diversify another thread
Edging towards this,
singles get hay/silage adlib
Multiplies get a lb of cake at the moment 6 weeks before lambing with adlib hay/ silage
Would like to cut it out all together, moving to an all forage based system.
Lamb out side in April at present moving from mules to llyens, all permanent pasture presently at 1000ft+ up on the edge of Exmoor,
Thinking of growing forage rape or kale, for ewes to feed from Christmas,
Discuss, by all means shoot me down, but some positive comments / advice would be good,:)(y).
Probably just cut the number of sheep .
 

liammogs

Member
Always wonderd if we 'cake' sheep to much! Everyone has that odd 2/3 ewes that catch a ram lamb in the summer, she has no 'special' care etc no cake, and lambs a good lamb/s, so if the 2/3 can do it why cant the rest of the flock? Always to scared to put across the board but it does make you wonder!
 

d-wales

Member
Location
Wales
I always wonder, that when we used to feed cake 3 weeks before lambing until the end of lambing, how come the ones at the end ie 7 weeks after we started feeding, had the same size lambs as the ones at the start, when they had twice as much cake!
 

Guiggs

Member
Location
Leicestershire
The late spring thing is a big concern to me, and I'm hoping numbers for next year so I could end up with not enough grass going into winter and it not getting going soon enough...then having to feed cake to ewes already on the back foot condition wise, just a losing situation all round....
Do people have blocks out if only on poor grass regardless or just if they feel it's necessary??
 

Tim W

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Wiltshire
I am grass only and my back up plan is to buy hay if we get a poor spring/winter
I haven't had to in the last 10 years with my own flock and didn't in the previous 15 working someone else's flock on the same system
Obviously I am in a better wintering area than many but there are plenty of people near me who have to feed their ewes most years ---why? Because they overstock :banghead::banghead: every year and never learn
To me it seems better to run less ewes with more profit than more ewes (more work) with less profit?
 

tinsheet

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Somerset
You can get some hellish weather up on Exmoor untill at least the end of April and you need lambs that can survive it, I don't think those breeds would be very suited to the climate.

On a lowland farm a different matter thou.

Ref on feeding grass, it would work if you can keep condition on the ewes from tupping onwards and especially the last few weeks pre lambing, this year it would be okay but 2/3 years ago when the grass turned blue ( well the grass stubble as there was no grass to speak of ) from now untill well into May you will more than likely run into a big problem ref energy levels.
Agree on the beltex etc struggling with the climate definitely not suited
always got plenty of hay or silage not the greatest quality hence willing to try kale or rape, as a break crop then reseed with a better lay than the pp currently covering the farm.
Main objective is to get the ewes right for this system, yes maybe cut back numbers a bit.
 

Top Tip.

Member
Location
highland
I am grass only and my back up plan is to buy hay if we get a poor spring/winter
I haven't had to in the last 10 years with my own flock and didn't in the previous 15 working someone else's flock on the same system
Obviously I am in a better wintering area than many but there are plenty of people near me who have to feed their ewes most years ---why? Because they overstock :banghead::banghead: every year and never learn
To me it seems better to run less ewes with more profit than more ewes (more work) with less profit?
That is similar to the old style where your stocking rate was determined by your winter carrying ability,absolutely nothing wrong with it and it is still the system used on many hill farms,what a lot of people do when feeding concentrate is to buy acres ie they increase their winter stocking to their summer stocking,whether it is profitable I would say some farms it is.
 

Bones

Member
Location
n Ireland
That is similar to the old style where your stocking rate was determined by your winter carrying ability,absolutely nothing wrong with it and it is still the system used on many hill farms,what a lot of people do when feeding concentrate is to buy acres ie they increase their winter stocking to their summer stocking,whether it is profitable I would say some farms it is.
After brexit, we could be all old style :poop:
 

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