Ex employer won't ?

[grainboy]

A digger driver once told me that the man who had done the digger course he’d been on admitted to having never driven a digger
Went on HGV Cpc course,
Noticed one of the lads looking round the room and adding up on his note pad,
He then asked the young ish looking, Course trainer,
‘So how long have you held a hgv licence’
‘Oh I don’t hold an hgv licence,’ he replied,
Well there’s about 250 yrs experience in this room, and your trying tell us you know better,
The course, sum what fell apart after that, !!

 

[Lofty1984]

A digger driver once told me that the man who had done the digger course he’d been on admitted to having never driven a digger
Went on HGV Cpc course,
Noticed one of the lads looking round the room and adding up on his note pad,
He then asked the young ish looking, Course trainer,
‘So how long have you held a hgv licence’
‘Oh I don’t hold an hgv licence,’ he replied,
Well there’s about 250 yrs experience in this room, and your trying tell us you know better,
The course, sum what fell apart after that, !!

Those who can’t, teach ! those who can just do it

 

[Al R]

Or more to the point, have the ability to do the job themselves.
A digger driver once told me that the man who had done the digger course he’d been on admitted to having never driven a digger

Yeah that isn’t uncommon from what I’ve heard from multiple sources…
I did my PA4 with @SilliamWhale and that examiner had never done any slug pelleting and was adamant the spreading vehicle couldn’t go above 5mph let alone 20mph like I used to spread at

@GAM what country are you in? City & Guilds are obvious choice or Lantra, NPTC, phone them up tell them your name, DOB etc and ask what certificates they hold for you.

 

[kiwi pom]

How do you go about getting your tickets off an ex employer who says, I can't remember the training company, and they should have sent the tickets directly to you?

Was the training genuine or just a cheap knock off course to make it look like you were trained? It must be a long time ago if you can't remember.
I know of a case where a couple of lads were supposedly trained to Pa1 and 2 on a course their boss organised. Turned out it wasn't valid, just cheap and they had to retake a proper course.
Would it be a big drama to do it again?

 

[egbert]

A digger driver once told me that the man who had done the digger course he’d been on admitted to having never driven a digger
Went on HGV Cpc course,
Noticed one of the lads looking round the room and adding up on his note pad,
He then asked the young ish looking, Course trainer,
‘So how long have you held a hgv licence’
‘Oh I don’t hold an hgv licence,’ he replied,
Well there’s about 250 yrs experience in this room, and your trying tell us you know better,
The course, sum what fell apart after that, !!

you stayed awake for one? wow! I just caught up with some zeds

 

[Bury the Trash]

Those who can’t, teach ! those who can just do it

Wow hang on a minute , that reads like you the writer can do it all totally and never needed to learn or improve

no one knows it all and there's always something to learn about everything ,thats where someone comes along to teach and just because they teach doesn't mean to say they know it all either what good teacher has ever said they did ?
A really good teacher or rather someone who likes as a vocation to help people grow with whatever they do will happily admit to being infallible and they with the wisdom they already have be helping a student to make their selves better at what ever it is , even if its just a different way / perspective of looking a a job .

but trouble is it seems to me in just coming out with that line you have closed your mind off from learning something new

 

[Bury the Trash]

i mean , heres an example Len Goodman (Sevonnnn )

and he can walk the walk as well as ...

see

 

[Lofty1984]

Wow hang on a minute , that reads like you the writer can do it all totally and never needed to learn or improve

no one knows it all and there's always something to learn about everything ,thats where someone comes along to teach and just because they teach doesn't mean to say they know it all either what good teacher has ever said they did ?
A really good teacher or rather someone who likes as a vocation to help people grow with whatever they do will happily admit to being infallible and they with the wisdom they already have be helping a student to make their selves better at what ever it is , even if its just a different way / perspective of looking a a job .

but trouble is it seems to me in just coming out with that line you have closed your mind off from learning something new

Was a fairly tongue in cheek comment I’m more than happy to learn and not afraid to ask if I don’t know something

 

[TheTallGuy]

There's no legal requirement to have most of these tickets such as FLT, 180, 360 anyway, it's usually just an Insurance requirement that users are "competent"

In strictly legal terms, the certificates belong to whoever paid for the training.

And the thing about signing to repay training costs if you quit the job isn't legally enforceable either.

Actually, training certificates belong to the person in who's name they are issued regardless of who paid for them. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/w...lving-property-disputes-when-you-leave-a-job/

As for claw back agreements - they are enforceable, but have to have been agreed in a contract before the training and the value must be reasonable - for example if an employee leaves 2 years after the training it wouldn’t be reasonable to charge the full cost of the training.

 

[Two Tone]

Maybe worth getting in touch with City & Guilds or Lantra to check what records they have.

 

[Exfarmer]

Was the training genuine or just a cheap knock off course to make it look like you were trained? It must be a long time ago if you can't remember.
I know of a case where a couple of lads were supposedly trained to Pa1 and 2 on a course their boss organised. Turned out it wasn't valid, just cheap and they had to retake a proper course.
Would it be a big drama to do it again?

You can soon get a thousand quids worth of tickets!

 

[Daddy Pig]

A digger driver once told me that the man who had done the digger course he’d been on admitted to having never driven a digger
Went on HGV Cpc course,
Noticed one of the lads looking round the room and adding up on his note pad,
He then asked the young ish looking, Course trainer,
‘So how long have you held a hgv licence’
‘Oh I don’t hold an hgv licence,’ he replied,
Well there’s about 250 yrs experience in this room, and your trying tell us you know better,
The course, sum what fell apart after that, !!

One of the best cpc courses I did was a first aid one. didn't make much odds if the trainer held a hgv licence or not.

 

[Gav]

Those who can’t, teach ! those who can just do it

Ah that old chestnut again. Sometimes it’s a case of those who teach got so fed up with the outdated expectations and attitude of certain managers and employers on farms that they went into training instead as they still wanted to work in the industry somehow.
Trouble is like all walks of life there are some employed in training who shouldn’t be there. I can think of some personally who have never used machines practically who train others yet put them on it and they are the worst operators out there.

With regards To the OP, certificates legally belong to the trainee named on them regardless of who paid for it. If a contract was signed with a loyalty clause in then yes this is legally enforceable.

Pesticide certificates are usually obtainable from City and Guilds for a fee, later ones could now be Lantra though.
Forklift ones are more tricky as you’d need to know who the instructor was accredited by - AITT, RTITB, Lantra, ITTSAR or City & Guilds. The same could be said for any other operators certificates unfortunately.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

There's no legal requirement to have most of these tickets such as FLT, 180, 360 anyway, it's usually just an Insurance requirement that users are "competent"

In strictly legal terms, the certificates belong to whoever paid for the training.

And the thing about signing to repay training costs if you quit the job isn't legally enforceable either.

I disagree, there is a health and safety requirement for any employer to ensure that staff asked to undertake a task are competent to do that. The problem comes when asked by the HSE how you prove competence of an employee and this is where a competence based qualification is needed. Attendance on a course does not prove competence, this is why the CITB plant training course has blue and red tickets (which involve collection of hours of work to standard). I know everyone will say on here these courses are a waste of time (but I think looking at accident statistics in agriculture prove training is important)

 

[betweenthelines]

I disagree, there is a health and safety requirement for any employer to ensure that staff asked to undertake a task are competent to do that. The problem comes when asked by the HSE how you prove competence of an employee and this is where a competence based qualification is needed. Attendance on a course does not prove competence, this is why the CITB plant training course has blue and red tickets (which involve collection of hours of work to standard). I know everyone will say on here these courses are a waste of time (but I think looking at accident statistics in agriculture prove training is important)

So how would you prove a person is "competent" to milk cows, drive a tractor, or other tasks?

A certificate is neither necessary or an indicator of "competence" just shows that on the day (like an MOT) the person followed instructions.

 

[Stroppymonkey]

Ah that old chestnut again. Sometimes it’s a case of those who teach got so fed up with the outdated expectations and attitude of certain managers and employers on farms that they went into training instead as they still wanted to work in the industry somehow.
Trouble is like all walks of life there are some employed in training who shouldn’t be there. I can think of some personally who have never used machines practically who train others yet put them on it and they are the worst operators out there.

With regards To the OP, certificates legally belong to the trainee named on them regardless of who paid for it. If a contract was signed with a loyalty clause in then yes this is legally enforceable.

Pesticide certificates are usually obtainable from City and Guilds for a fee, later ones could now be Lantra though.
Forklift ones are more tricky as you’d need to know who the instructor was accredited by - AITT, RTITB, Lantra, ITTSAR or City & Guilds. The same could be said for any other operators certificates unfortunately.

The forklift courses we put our lads through at work are bespoke for our company and not recognised outside of that so no use to any other employer. 360 ticket had to be a national recognised qualification though.

 

[betweenthelines]

Actually, training certificates belong to the person in who's name they are issued regardless of who paid for them. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/w...lving-property-disputes-when-you-leave-a-job/

As for claw back agreements - they are enforceable, but have to have been agreed in a contract before the training and the value must be reasonable - for example if an employee leaves 2 years after the training it wouldn’t be reasonable to charge the full cost of the training.

Things like an FLT cert are not "professional qualifications" they are just "proof of competence" Professional qualifications would be things like Manager CPC's, Accountancy or Legal qualifications.

Even if someone signs a training agreement, the employer is not entitled to get the money back-which is why nobody funds employees to get LGV qualifications

 

[Pilatus]

Where’s @Dr Sensible .

 

[thesilentone]

There's no legal requirement to have most of these tickets such as FLT, 180, 360 anyway, it's usually just an Insurance requirement that users are "competent"

In strictly legal terms, the certificates belong to whoever paid for the training.

And the thing about signing to repay training costs if you quit the job isn't legally enforceable either.

Most in the post is wrong, so make sure you check carefully.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Things like an FLT cert are not "professional qualifications" they are just "proof of competence" Professional qualifications would be things like Manager CPC's, Accountancy or Legal qualifications.

Even if someone signs a training agreement, the employer is not entitled to get the money back-which is why nobody funds employees to get LGV qualifications

Doesn't matter if it is a "professional" or "vocational" certificate - the certificate is issued to and in the name of the individual. It may be possible to have a contractual restriction on use of the skills from the training for a competing business, but it would have to be reasonable & proportionate and a whole can of worms...

As for clawback - I think that I will take the word of Acas... https://www.acas.org.uk/final-pay-when-someone-leaves-a-job/deductions-for-training-courses