Excellent article about rewilding

Dachie

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
east Ayrshire
Yawn. Another smart arse slagging off ELMS without actually saying what it should look like instead. He should sign up on here.
I am not part of the elms claimants as I am in Scotland and we are watching what's happening down there from here and seeing where the Scottish government is heading with there ag plans and it's not good for the British public at large.
They are wanting to rewild or plant a huge quantity of agricultural land and take it out of production which is all fair and well and I think every farmer on here will agree we need to protect the environment but the problem is the human population is increasing year on year so if you take land out of production where is the food going to be produced for the increasing population and you may say we will import it but that will not improve the environment it just cause other countries to do the damage to feed ours. Why not pay farmer to improve the soils which we already do and invest in better use of fodder and crop technology to become more efficient which again any decent farmer is already doing. The only other option is to reduce the world population but I am sure I read somewhere mass murder is illegal....
 
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The only other option is to reduce the world population but I am sure I read somewhere mass murder is illegal....
All sorts of ridiculous Shyte seems to be popular and promoted “in the name of the environment “ e.g re wilding.
I see no reason why those who embrace and promote such things would be against a bit of a cull “in the name of the environment “ 🤔
 

Dachie

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
east Ayrshire
All sorts of ridiculous Shyte seems to be popular and promoted “in the name of the environment “ e.g re wilding.
I see no reason why those who embrace and promote such things would be against a bit of a cull “in the name of the environment “ 🤔
Well if they want to know where to start the cull I have a pre prepared list but knowing the twits in charge of the country they will start with farmers and be left with eco warriors to mess up the countryside.
 

delilah

Member
Might be a yawn to us on here that have heard and know the arguments against current Defra policy time and again but the more journalists and media articles questioning it the better.

I don't see how articles like this help. They just feed the 'whingeing farmers' narrative. Everyone bellyaches that ELMS is being driven by the likes of the RSPB, Wildlife Trusts etc. Why is that ? Could it be that they know, specifically, what they want out of ELMS, and employ the best that money can hire to get that message across ? What do we do, beyond cheer when someone writes an article slagging it off ? Where are the articles from our national bodies saying, specifically, what ELMS needs to look like ? Look at the NFU submission to the Public Accounts Committee, all it does is moan and call for a 12 month delay. The NFU have known this has been coming for years. Why don't they have their version written ?
 

milkloss

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
I don't see how articles like this help. They just feed the 'whingeing farmers' narrative. Everyone bellyaches that ELMS is being driven by the likes of the RSPB, Wildlife Trusts etc. Why is that ? Could it be that they know, specifically, what they want out of ELMS, and employ the best that money can hire to get that message across ? What do we do, beyond cheer when someone writes an article slagging it off ? Where are the articles from our national bodies saying, specifically, what ELMS needs to look like ? Look at the NFU submission to the Public Accounts Committee, all it does is moan and call for a 12 month delay. The NFU have known this has been coming for years. Why don't they have their version written ?
You want plenty of answers but quite frankly, without a complete reset and starting from a blank sheet, any answers will get lost in all the other cr4p. All these ideas to tweak an already messed up idea is going to end up with an overly complicated, burdensome and confusing monster. Perhaps that’s the idea….. make it so complicated that only the large companies/charities with compliance departments are the ones that can apply.

We’re happy when someone slags it off because we’re looking for someone that appears to understand what’s going on. It’s all got so wacky that I no have no interest in it at all and will just ride the wave when the paperwork magically turns up and it gets discussed on here how to apply.

In my opinion farmers are a bit rudderless here because I find it hard to see any organisation batting for us. Having watched it get this far is proof enough for me.
 

bovrill

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
East Essexshire
Well if they want to know where to start the cull I have a pre prepared list but knowing the twits in charge of the country they will start with farmers and be left with eco warriors to mess up the countryside.
Get Elon Musk to construct a Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B.
(You might have to look that up if you're not knowledgeable on the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy!)
 

Wombat

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
East yorks
I don't see how articles like this help. They just feed the 'whingeing farmers' narrative. Everyone bellyaches that ELMS is being driven by the likes of the RSPB, Wildlife Trusts etc. Why is that ? Could it be that they know, specifically, what they want out of ELMS, and employ the best that money can hire to get that message across ? What do we do, beyond cheer when someone writes an article slagging it off ? Where are the articles from our national bodies saying, specifically, what ELMS needs to look like ? Look at the NFU submission to the Public Accounts Committee, all it does is moan and call for a 12 month delay. The NFU have known this has been coming for years. Why don't they have their version written ?
The thing is I have put some suggestions in and I think they will be quite the opposite to your permanent pasture should get it all( despite me having quite a lot) crap. That really is the crux of it, what you want as a farmer is quite different to me and what I would like to see them do.

Most of the charities and institutions want the same things so it’s easy to have a concerted view and put it across as the way forward. As farmers we have very different views to each other so getting a common one is nigh on impossible
 
You want plenty of answers but quite frankly, without a complete reset and starting from a blank sheet, any answers will get lost in all the other cr4p. All these ideas to tweak an already messed up idea is going to end up with an overly complicated, burdensome and confusing monster. Perhaps that’s the idea….. make it so complicated that only the large companies/charities with compliance departments are the ones that can apply.

We’re happy when someone slags it off because we’re looking for someone that appears to understand what’s going on. It’s all got so wacky that I no have no interest in it at all and will just ride the wave when the paperwork magically turns up and it gets discussed on here how to apply.

In my opinion farmers are a bit rudderless here because I find it hard to see any organisation batting for us. Having watched it get this far is proof enough for me.
reading your post brought to mind an article I read about the EU. It said that the big companies were more than happy with all the EU regulations (even though it cost them hundreds of thousands to comply with), as they knew the small companies could not afford or did not have the skills to comply, therefore it kept them out of the market. The way our agricultural subsidies seem to be going the same way, big charities can access the funding, but it is designed in such a way to exclude all the small (compared to charities) farmers and landowners.
 

Bill the Bass

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
I don't see how articles like this help. They just feed the 'whingeing farmers' narrative. Everyone bellyaches that ELMS is being driven by the likes of the RSPB, Wildlife Trusts etc. Why is that ? Could it be that they know, specifically, what they want out of ELMS, and employ the best that money can hire to get that message across ? What do we do, beyond cheer when someone writes an article slagging it off ? Where are the articles from our national bodies saying, specifically, what ELMS needs to look like ? Look at the NFU submission to the Public Accounts Committee, all it does is moan and call for a 12 month delay. The NFU have known this has been coming for years. Why don't they have their version written ?
Actually the RSPB, Wildlife Trusts and National Trust have been highly critical of SFI which I am sure fairly peed off defra and it’s corresponding ministers - maybe the NFU are playing the long game?
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
NFFN Member
Location
Cb97ej
The article makes a number of exaggerations.

It implies by omission that everything in the agricultural garden is rosy and we have a thriving functioning agricultural and food economy. What balls is that? A third of farms are losing money before bps and some are even loss making after subsidies.

They claim that Elms will result in food insecurity when we are already only producing 50% by value of the food bought in this country.

There's a constant whine on food prices going up which can only be good for farmers (unless the corporate food system manage to keep all of the price increases). Food has never been cheaper.

It's not just the rspb and national trust who want to see increased biodiversity. A large section of the public do and some farmers too.
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
Yawn. Another smart arse slagging off ELMS without actually saying what it should look like instead. He should sign up on here.
This is what it should look like































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Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
I don't see how articles like this help. They just feed the 'whingeing farmers' narrative. Everyone bellyaches that ELMS is being driven by the likes of the RSPB, Wildlife Trusts etc. Why is that ? Could it be that they know, specifically, what they want out of ELMS, and employ the best that money can hire to get that message across ? What do we do, beyond cheer when someone writes an article slagging it off ? Where are the articles from our national bodies saying, specifically, what ELMS needs to look like ? Look at the NFU submission to the Public Accounts Committee, all it does is moan and call for a 12 month delay. The NFU have known this has been coming for years. Why don't they have their version written ?

Do you know the story about the Emperor's new clothes?
Somebody needs to point out that Defras plans have no fabric to them.

I believe the NFU have made alternative suggestions.

Mine is in essence simple.
Take the BPS money and spend it wisely on more localised facilities such as abattoirs,energy generation/storage and food hubs . Ditch ELMS.
Offer a premium on all UK produce which is carbon neutral and pay for it by taxing any imports that are not.
 

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