Excellent article about rewilding

[7610 super q]

Is it really an "Excellent article" ?

Considering the author is due to give evidence to the UK’s Trade and Agriculture Commission in the coming weeks I would have least expected a 5 point plan from him telling us what he would see a successful ELMS look like.
Whilst the article pointed out the obvious he fell into the Westminster trap of leaving out any real alternative for DEFRA , so they will acknowledge his input and carry on regardless.
Unless somebody steps up with a 5 point plan of something sensible, radical and economically sound, this rhetoric will just keep being recirculated

Alrighty then, I'll give it a go....

(1) All payments directed to those with less than 100 acres ( me )
(2) Payments only to those with blue tractors ( Not Leyland nor Landini ) ( me )
(3 ) Payments for Proper farmers only ( sometimes me )
(4) Those that use silly words like re wilding, and re gen agriculture should have their land taken off them, much like in the days of War Ag.
(5) Payments for those preserving historic features such as hedges, walls, stone out buildings, and WW2 aircraft hangers ( me ).

You will never devise a payment system that suits everyone. We have had 40 odd years of it and there's been some substantial winners, and losers.
Bin the whole idea.

 

[Courier]

The whole environmental rejig of subsidies is purely designed to suit the likes of the RSPB and National trust plus the odd landowner who owns a lot of land but with non-farming agenda.

Within years you will see a lot of land in rack and ruin but it won't matter them to because they have no intention of ever farming it anyway.

Utter waste of money.

Yep, the pledge to replace BPS £ for £ to the Ag Industry as a whole may be achieved, but the bulk of the money will be going to landlords rather than those who need it for producing food.

 

[Barleycorn]

Alrighty then, I'll give it a go....

(1) All payments directed to those with less than 100 acres ( me )
(2) Payments only to those with blue tractors ( Not Leyland nor Landini ) ( me )
(3 ) Payments for Proper farmers only ( sometimes me )
(4) Those that use silly words like re wilding, and re gen agriculture should have their land taken off them, much like in the days of War Ag.
(5) Payments for those preserving historic features such as hedges, walls, stone out buildings, and WW2 aircraft hangers ( me ).

You will never devise a payment system that suits everyone. We have had 40 odd years of it and there's been some substantial winners, and losers.
Bin the whole idea.

Got any pictures of your hangers, (or should I re-phrase that?!!)

 

[onesiedale]

Alrighty then, I'll give it a go....

(1) All payments directed to those with less than 100 acres ( me )
(2) Payments only to those with blue tractors ( Not Leyland nor Landini ) ( me )
(3 ) Payments for Proper farmers only ( sometimes me )
(4) Those that use silly words like re wilding, and re gen agriculture should have their land taken off them, much like in the days of War Ag.
(5) Payments for those preserving historic features such as hedges, walls, stone out buildings, and WW2 aircraft hangers ( me ).

You will never devise a payment system that suits everyone. We have had 40 odd years of it and there's been some substantial winners, and losers.
Bin the whole idea.

that's good.
within your 5 point plan you actually put forward more credible suggestions than the professor who wrote the article in the OP AND the NFU!

 

[delilah]

As I may have said before:

1) 90% of ELMS to the SFI, 10% to the lentil knitters.
2) £220/Ha on the first 40 Ha of PP.
3) Proper - that is to say profitable - payments on water margins and hedgerows
4) Capital grants focused on shortening the supply chain.
5) New entrant support.

 

[delilah]

" Agriculture has a vital role to play in managing the UK’s land and landscape, with more than 70% of England being managed as farmland. Farmland can make an important contribution to adaptation, including through support for biodiversity, mitigation of flood risk, and improved soil management. Changes may be needed to the crops grown, taking advantage of resource efficiencies, ensuring that the knowledge gained from R&D is transferred to changes on the ground, and taking up new technologies. Sustainable soil management will be critical to ensuring farm systems are resilient. While much of the 28 planning will rightly fall to individual farm businesses, government will continue to support research, and will be introducing a new environmental land management scheme underpinned by natural capital principles. Our new Environmental Land Management Schemes will contribute to the delivery of the environmental outcomes outlined in the 25 Year Environmental Plan, such as adaptation to the effects of climate change. Our objective in the first NAP was to increase the resilience of agriculture by effectively managing the impact of volatility in the occurrence and severity of rainfall events on water availability, flooding, soil erosion and pollution due to runoff. Many other policy areas will have an impact on, or be impacted by, agriculture. The 25 Year Environment Plan outlines goals across other policy areas which are addressed elsewhere in this document: to tackle soils degradation, improve soils management and monitor soil health (see section 2.6.1); to protect and restore vulnerable peatlands (see section 2.6.2); and to ensure sustainable use of water resources and resilience of supply (see section 2.4.1) We have also been working towards embedding climate change adaptation into agriculture, horticulture and forestry research programmes, in order to improve knowledge of likely climate impacts and contribute to the development and uptake of climate resilient crops, tree and livestock species as well as relevant technologies. In the 25 Year Environment Plan we have committed to support farmers to turn over fields to meadows rich in herbs and wildflowers, plant more trees, restore habitats for endangered species, recover soil fertility and attract wildlife back. Alongside this we will ensure that food is produced sustainably and profitably. In working to increase resilience, government will work to ensure that the right actions are targeted in the right locations. Our plans will balance competing and conflicting demands to ensure that land is used in the best way to safeguard long-term sustainability, safety and productivity. Our new Environmental Land Management schemes will aim to deliver a range of environmental benefits such as mitigation and adaption to climate change. We are working closely with farmers, food producers and environmental experts across Britain to design a ‘user friendly’ scheme for farmers and land managers, which reduces prescription, encourages scheme uptake, and could incentivise collaboration and landscape scale working. We will continue to support farmers and land managers in delivering the outcomes and to help them to work together to achieve benefits at landscape and catchment level. Agriculture is a key consumer of water, most notably during what tend to be drier months, when there is an increased public demand for water. We are working with farmers and other abstractors to ensure that abstraction licences are sustainable (see section 2.4.1) and that the agriculture sector has access to water and uses it efficiently. 29 In February we published a consultation paper setting out options for supporting farming once we have the left the European Union. We will work closely with the devolved administrations on a framework that works for the whole of the UK and reflects the needs and individual circumstances of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. As part of this, we will continue to engage regularly with all the devolved administrations to explore options on the design and appropriate extent of the forthcoming Agriculture Bill. The government actively promotes awareness of flood risks to farm businesses and encourages action to improve flood resilience – these actions are expanded on in section 4.3. Government is also stimulating industry-academia collaboration, for example through the Agri-tech catalyst, which will help improve agricultural productivity and contribute to more environmentally sustainable agricultural systems. The Countryside Productivity scheme offers grants for farmers to invest in cutting edge technology and new equipment. Grants are available to help livestock, dairy, arable and horticulture farmers improve productivity through investing in new technology to reduce cost or improve product quality. In partnership with industry, we will encourage widespread adoption of precision agriculture, pioneer new approaches to crop protection and encourage more commercial research to improve plant breeding and agronomic techniques through schemes such as the ISCF Transforming Food Production programme which was launched in February 2018. New approaches, such as vertical farming, can harness the combined power of robotics, photonics, artificial intelligence and smart energy management systems, as well as plant biotechnology"

So what are they doing to "Alongside this we will ensure that food is produced sustainably and profitably."?

An important document, in that it perpetuates the myth that the problems within the food chain lie solely our side of the farm gate. A myth that UK ag via its representative bodies buys into on a daily basis. Until we stop apologizing, and start to point out where the real damage is being caused, we are failing our businesses our communities and the environment.

 

[ajd132]

As I may have said before:

1) 90% of ELMS to the SFI, 10% to the lentil knitters.
2) £220/Ha on the first 40 Ha of PP.
3) Proper - that is to say profitable - payments on water margins and hedgerows
4) Capital grants focused on shortening the supply chain.
5) New entrant support.

My view-

£500/ha to everyone zero till drilling and cover cropping.
Ban ploughing.
fines for cultivating.

 

[delilah]

My view-

£500/ha to everyone zero till drilling and cover cropping.
Ban ploughing.
fines for cultivating.

That's only 3.

 

[7610 super q]

Got any pictures of your hangers, (or should I re-phrase that?!!)

They're on a WW2 thread on here, if you can make sense of the search facility.....

 

[Ffermer Bach]

In recent years we've seen wildfires in Wales of all places. I don't know if this is a new phenomenon in recent times but it does question the wisdom of creating very large blocks of forestry IMHO......

I think conservationists have to bear a big chunk of the blame for these fires, I read in a reply to a comment I made on a thread that Obama removed the grazing of state forestry land in the US (at the behest of the conservationists) and here too, the conservation lobby are forever wanting less grazing. I think we need more grazing, but not set stocking, rotational grazing (and I was so impressed with the idea of electronic collars to facilitate this - bar to use being the cost - opportunity for ELMS grants I wonder?). I have also read a little about the local water cycles which cities and the way we are farming are interfering with, which encourages fires, but again, it is all blamed on global warming, where as local water cycles have an influence.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

The forced removal by various means of farmer's livestock from these uplands by the EA means there are now few green firebreaks & there are very few farmers prepared to spend their time burning out firebreaks, this will inevitably result in massive uncontrollable fires as our summers continue to warm up.
The likes of Monbiot & the EA should be held totally responsible for this when it occurs & pilloried in the newspapers.

I heard a very interesting programme on radio 4 talking about fires being lit in the valleys in Wales by school children. They said, it was partly because the general population has no attachment or "cultural ownership" of the surrounding valleys and moors, this being due to the way the population were disenfranchised from their land, which has resulted in a trans generational cultural script to not value that land.

 

[ajd132]

That's only 3.

Re wild all permanent pasture for free

 

[BrianV]

Alrighty then, I'll give it a go....

(1) All payments directed to those with less than 100 acres ( me )
(2) Payments only to those with blue tractors ( Not Leyland nor Landini ) ( me )
(3 ) Payments for Proper farmers only ( sometimes me )
(4) Those that use silly words like re wilding, and re gen agriculture should have their land taken off them, much like in the days of War Ag.
(5) Payments for those preserving historic features such as hedges, walls, stone out buildings, and WW2 aircraft hangers ( me ).

You will never devise a payment system that suits everyone. We have had 40 odd years of it and there's been some substantial winners, and losers.
Bin the whole idea.

We will never have a system that benefits everyone BUT if we have a base payment for the first 100 acres or hectares at least everyone is being treated the same & those that want to or are able to can get involved in additional ELMS projects, we must protect the most vulnerable in our industry or else we are no better than the twits in Whitehall !!

 

[DaveGrohl]

this is what BPS is for more or less, its a payment to keep land in GAEC it not really a subsidy its a payment and its definitely not a subsidy for land ownership as some silly buggers would have you believe.

It’s for what the media say it is. Facts or aims aren’t important.

 

[DaveGrohl]

'Surreal' January wildfire shuts California highway​

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• Our Planet Now

Media caption,
Watch: Wildfires light up the night sky in California
An unseasonal wildfire is raging in California's Monterey County, forcing evacuations and the closure of Highway 1, US officials say.
The National Weather Service (NWS) reported a "surreal fire behaviour given the wet Oct and Dec".
The blaze along the Big Sur Pacific coast, dubbed the Colorado Fire, has scorched about 1,500 acres (607 ha).
Strong winds pushed the fire toward the sea, and flames were seen burning near the famous Bixby Creek Bridge.
Senior forestry and fire protection official Mike Meddles said firefighters from 13 agencies from around California's central coast had been deployed to tackle the blaze, according to KTLA digital channel.

• World's biggest tree gets blanket as US fire rages
• Are wildfires getting worse?
• Firefighters tackle historic California wildfire
• Listen to Justin Rowlatt on California's wildfires

The area where the blaze is burning had "little or no fire history," the NWS's Bay Area branch said in a Twitter post. .
"Anecdotally it seems as though the long term drought is acting like a chronic illness where even recent rains and cold winter weather isn't helping to keep fires from developing," the statement said.
Climate change increases the risk of the hot, dry weather that is likely to fuel wildfires.
The world has already warmed by about 1.2C since the industrial era began and temperatures will keep rising unless governments around the world make steep cuts to emissions.

IMAGE SOURCE, THE MERCURY NEWS VIA GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Flames were seen moving towards the famous Bixby Creek Bridge on Saturday morning

------------

This is the inevitable future for large parts of our uplands if Johnson & his Eco lunatics have their way, it is bound to happen if they are not stopped from destroying our countryside!!

I’ve read plenty of comments and articles about these fires and why they’re happening and it’s not due to climate change. As with most things these days, it’s the cessation of management that used to be carried out routinely (including burning) which made large scale fires impossible. The world is being taken over by a generation of people who haven’t got a clue what they‘re doing and have no interest in asking their predecessors because we’ve now got the internet so know everything.

And yes, I do sound like a grumpy old barsteward

 

[Henarar]

My view-

£500/ha to everyone zero till drilling and cover cropping.
Ban ploughing.
fines for cultivating.

Fine by me,
zero tilled the crops in here over the last 20 to 100 whatever years
ban ploughing thats fine
don't cultivate
sit back and enjoy the rise in payments

by zero till drill I take it that it just drops the seed on the ground, any of these discs and tines and so on are tillage

 

[Henarar]

Re wild all permanent pasture for free

yep I can do that, already have actually, what grows the cows eat can't get much more re wild than that unless you want to bring back the bison that used to roam about the place but they may wonder out the re wilded hedge and flatten your corn

those that talk of re wilding need to specify a time they wish it to go back to,

 

[wanton dwarf]

Yawn. Another smart arse slagging off ELMS without actually saying what it should look like instead. He should sign up on here.

Oh bog off.

ELMS should NOT exist.

Those that want this Environmental bollox should pay for it. We do not live in a Dictatorhsip where little hitlers can foist their agendas on people who DO NOT WANT TO DO IT.

 

[ajd132]

Oh bog off.

ELMS should NOT exist.

Those that want this Environmental bollox should pay for it. We do not live in a Dictatorhsip where little hitlers can foist their agendas on people who DO NOT WANT TO DO IT.

It is optional.

 

[wanton dwarf]

I want someone to show me their workings for encouraging all these wetlands when it is known that natural wetlands and swamps release huge amounts of methane, a potent greenhouse gas?

IF the loonies were interested in "Sequestering Carbon" they'd be ensuring trees planted were used in the Construction industry.

In fact they'd have stopped Amazonian Rainforest dectruction decades ago,.

It's a con.

It's all about punishing one group of workers so the Super Rich can make a killing on imports and in the future Contruction Land.

Environmentalism = Bollox.