Explosion in Beruit

[milkloss]

There was a very bug explosion in Iran a few years ago when a train crash happened. a Fuel truck leaked into a truck of AN and a huge blast followed when it detonated. This happened several hours after the initial crash wjhen sadly many crowds had appeared to try and syphon off the remaining fuel. It is unknown how many died

I get curious about this sort of thing. I'm not doubting it happened or that the loss of life is tragic but I always thought ANFO was remarkably difficult to make go off in an explosion or at least sufficiently difficult that it could be moved in bulk. I'm wondering what happened in your example to detonate the An/fuel mix.

 

[Muck Spreader]

I wonder if other products were like diesel or oil were also being stored alongside the the AN as this would potentially turn an oxidising agent into an explosive.

 

[beardface]

Or an attempt to stabilise the region by carrying out a highly targeted pre-emptive strike on weapons coming into the region?

(Depending on which side your bread is buttered)

True, I'd go with the former TBH. Worst thing for Israel is a stabilised United Arab front.

 

[farmerm]

Or an attempt to stabilise the region by carrying out a highly targeted pre-emptive strike on weapons coming into the region?

(Depending on which side your bread is buttered)

There is nothing in the public domain that currently proves if the original fire when the videos start was due to accident or intent. I would hazard a guess that if this did indeed start from some form of intentional strike on a building that the perpetrators where just as surprised and shocked by the adjacent warehouse detonating in the manor that it did as everyone else in the world.

 

[SW1]

From facebook

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

There is nothing in the public domain that currently proves if the original fire when the videos start was due to accident or intent. I would hazard a guess that if this did indeed start from some form of intentional strike on a building that the perpetrators where just as surprised and shocked by the adjacent warehouse detonating in the manor that it did as everyone else in the world.

To go into full tinfoil hat mode,

If a foreign power (or regional insurgent group) was aiming for the food supply (grain storage) at the port, it would be a stroke of miracle that the fertiliser store next door was full at the time.

If Israel was conducting a pre-emptive strike, Mossad would know exactly what was stored where.

However, Israel tends to carry out air-strikes in the dead of night, then issue a PR press release at first light.

 

[Still Farming]

I believe that AN was the IRA’s preferred method.........

Don't think it was legal to sell in Northern Ireland years ago?

 

[farmerm]

"Al-Jazeera, the Qatar-based Arab broadcaster, reports that 85 per cent of Lebanon's grain stocks were destroyed by the explosion"

 

[Still Farming]

That's the grain silos in the port.

What a mess!

Those silos took some blast?
Maybe helped shield a bit of that side of City?

 

[dudders]

I get curious about this sort of thing. I'm not doubting it happened or that the loss of life is tragic but I always thought ANFO was remarkably difficult to make go off in an explosion or at least sufficiently difficult that it could be moved in bulk. I'm wondering what happened in your example to detonate the An/fuel mix.

Someone lit a fag? Brainless morons do things like that.

A freighter I was working on many years ago was anchored south of Port of Spain, Trinidad waiting to go in to discharge cargo. A big oil refinery onshore went up with a blast and we had a ringside seat at the resulting fire that engulfed several of the big fuel tanks. Before we left port later, it was being said that the nightwatchman was going off duty and lit a fag. He didn't do that again...

You can still see the burnt-out tanks on Google Earth - no clean-up there!

 

[DrWazzock]

I’d say a very tragic accident. Not sure what any faction there would hope to gain by a strike of that nature killing indiscriminately over a wide civilian area. Lebanon was already a basket case and a mix of different religious groups. No strategic gain for anybody making a bad situation ten times worse. When you see the safety standards that apply abroad you’d be surprised it doesn’t happen more often.

The situation for storage of AN in the UK is nothing like that abroad. No need for panic measures here. Just comply with our present rules.

 

[PostHarvest]

Someone lit a fag? Brainless morons do things like that.

Absolutely right. A couple of Afghan police who were supposed to be guarding a munitions store near Kandahar did that and threw the fag end over the fence. I believe that one of them lived long enough to tell the story.
During the Lebanese civil war, the warlords in Beirut financed their operations by allowing toxic and dodgy chemical waste to be dumped there for a fee. I discovered that when a boatload of Chinese supplied feed maize was condemned on arrival in Poland and it took months to find anywhere to dump 30,000 tons of rotten & contaminated maize. Eventually it went to Beirut as paying the fee was the only way to get the ship emptied and back into service. It still cost megabucks.
So who knows what was actually in that warehouse?

 

[DealeyPlaza1963]

The situation for storage of AN in the UK is nothing like that abroad. No need for panic measures here. Just comply with our present rules.
[/QUOTE]

Not sure that's true across the whole of the UK agri-industry, particularly at farm level and the fact there is still a vast raft of historic exemptions for agriculture to avoid regulatory compliance with in terms of the storage, transport and sale of AN when compared to every other sector involved with these ADR class products, leaves it very open to risks- and as we already know, you don't need a lot of the stuff to make one hell of a mess and damage to property, life and limb.

 

[Lowland1]

When I first came to Kenya in the mid 90's I tried to buy AN and was told it cannot be sold here. At the time I had no idea why after the Oklahoma City bombing I started to understand so for the last 25 plus years we have used Urea and urea blends for top dressing with no problem. In the U.K I can see the problem not being your fertiliser store catching fire but more likely someone pinching a tonne or two from an outlying yard to make a bomb especially seeing this.

 

[JCMaloney]

There was something on fire in the unit next door, hence folk filming it. Think that was the "firework factory".... must have spread to said pile of AN in an an enclosed shed which probably just went up like a pressure cooker. Anyone nearby won`t be saying what happened, or be found.

 

[Sid]

How close do you want to get?

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[Sid]

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[Tarw Coch]

Realistically , within 2 years max- and although from what I have read it seems this was an accident, I think the likely growth of terrorism using AN as IED's along with the rise of insurance commercial costs for shippers/ports/stores/hauliers/farmers will also be a driver to see AN become obsolete. As posted previously, the historic agronomic argument in terms of efficiency and the environment no longer stands.

Time will tell but my feeling is that it won’t happen.
No doubt I will have forgot all about this thread in two years to come back and see if your predictions are right

 

[DrWazzock]

You don’t need much petrol to make a hell of an explosion under the right conditions but members of the public can hose petrol into 20 litre containers on the forecourt and store it how and where they like free from inspection.
If terrorists really want AN they will turn up with guns and force whoever is in charge to open the store and give them it, even if it’s like Fort Knox with every grain recorded in triplicate.
I fail to see what further regulation of farmers use of AN will achieve. It’s storage is already subject to inspection by EA, HSE and RT and must comply with their standards. What more can we do which will actually make any difference?

 

[Tarw Coch]

https://minerva.jrc.ec.europa.eu/EN/content/minerva/79837f29-3146-480c-be69-af86e1639a75/srtseviiammoniumnitratesafetypdf

"ExplosionAmmonium nitrate can produce an explosion by one of three mechanisms: heating inconfinement7, run-away reaction, and detonation. Heating in confinement is a riskwhen ventilation is inadequate. The rapid decomposition of the ammonium nitrateleads to a considerable pressure build-up that can eventually cause an explosion. Also,ammonium nitrate in the molten state is more sensitive to initiation than the solidmaterial.A runaway reaction is achieved when the heat generated by the reaction exceeds theheat loss by a dangerously high margin. For pure ammonium nitrate, thesecircumstances are difficult to achieve given its low decomposition rate andendothermic effect when unconfined.Uncontaminated ammonium nitrate is very difficult to detonate. Neither flame, norspark nor friction can cause a detonation. Initiation by shock wave requires a largeamount of energy. The degree of resistance is strongly dependent on the presence ofvoids or bubbles in the substance, hence the bulk density, and the degree ofcontamination by organic matter or fuel.Another very important factor is the minimum dimension or diameter of theammonium nitrate charge. As the size of the ammonium nitrate bulk heap or stackincreases, its vulnerability to detonation increases. The critical charge diameter is theminimum diameter necessary to sustain a detonation. High density ammonium nitratehas a very large critical charge diameter making fully fledged detonation in storagevery difficult, >7m at a bulk density of 1.0g/cm3. It is therefore very resistant andcan only be detonated by a strong stimulus and very close confinement."

So hard to get explosion of AN alone, but not impossible.

That reminds me, a load of pulan I recently had came with some sort of detonation certificate, never seen one of those before.
I probably didn’t give it the attention it deserved, skim read it, didn’t really understand it but took it to mean that it wasn’t going to go bang too easily.

Perhaps I misunderstood, perhaps I’ve got a load of seriously good sh!t and should keep it for a bit of fun on November 5th.