Extending RTK base station range options ?

[Clive]

I need to extend our RTK signal to some land that is beyond range of our existing LH Agro installed base.

Is an additional base my best or only option or can I use SIM and data over mobile network to get the correction to the places we cant reach ?

All equipment is Topcon if that makes any difference ?

 

[Alistair Nelson]

Ask about a repeater that will do your job if you can put it within range of your existing mast to extend further or to other side of a hill etc.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Any idea on distance from your base? You’ve probably got a couple of options here which you need to weigh up.

1. Repeater with low power radio. No need for licence (on license free spectrum but power out will be max of 1W) could give you enough extra range at fairly low price and hassle factor (power etc). A decent antenna mounted in a good posy works wonders.

2. Repeater with high-power radio. Much greater operating range, need to factor in siting, power and license costs. Really wants a good mast and antenna to maximise range.

3. Enable NTRIP on your existing base. Could be the cheapest option; depending on the capability of your base receiver it could already have a NTRIP server/caster on it, whether there’s easy internet access to it etc. Also need to consider quality of mobile service where you’re operating.

4. New portable base. Not as mad as it sounds, a couple of grand more than a high power radio repeater. No radio licence either with built in low power radio on licence free spectrum.


Some recent discussion about something similar in Richard’s Topcon Hiper V thread here.

 

[Clive]

Thanks

We get 20 miles range to the east of us but run out of signal just 10miles west. I’m try to get to land approx 15 miles west. Base is on a tall building and mast on a good hill but I think topography to the west is why reach is not so good

I don’t think a repeater is an option as we have no yard or power infrastructure west of current base closer than the 15miles


Can someone explain NTRIP please ? - is that data over mobile network from our base ? Base has easy internet access and mobile network is good (4g)

 

[DangerRanger]

I run topcon on NTRIP and it's good but the down side is it costs £800ish per annum

 

[bobk]

You'll have to buy a set of markers clive .

 

[Clive]

I run topcon on NTRIP and it's good but the down side is it costs £800ish per annum

Would it cost that from your own base station ? Surely my only cost would be data while the ntrip was in use ? Rest of the time it could run on radio ?

 

[Clive]

You'll have to buy a set of markers clive .

They dont like cover crops much !

 

[Daniel]

The NTRIP on our Deutz is working 28km from its base, the tractor needs a modem in it for the sim card which would have a cost.

 

[Clive]

The NTRIP on our Deutz is working 28km from its base, the tractor needs a modem in it for the sim card which would have a cost.

I think Topcon units have a sim slot in them ?

 

[Daniel]

I think Topcon units have a sim slot in them ?

Pass, I think I got lucky, the tractor was ex demo, I thought it was only on RTK on the dealers licence but when it turned up I spoke to RTK farming and they said it was permanently unlocked, £650 a year for their signal and roaming sim.

 

[Soon_60]

NTRIP is a very cost effective way to get corrections from home base to the fields.
Works fine if both the base and tractors on the fields have good cell phone (=internet) coverage.

Distance is no problem: Correction come fast no mater how far you go. But of course single base RTK corrections are less accurate to further you go from base. But even at 25-30 km it is way better than Range-point, Omnistar or not to even mention EGNOS...

Free caster software for base is available. For example www.use-snip.com. Has versions for both Windows and Ubuntu Linux. Requirements for PC hardware are quite minimal.

Free Android phone/tablet client software: Lefefure NTRIP-client from Google Play is great.
Blue-tooth serial adapters to get the corrections from Android device to the display cost between some 50 - 150.

If your display has a built in NTRP client and SIM-card it even easier.

Go ahead!

 

[Clive]

NTRIP is a very cost effective way to get corrections from home base to the fields.
Works fine if both the base and tractors on the fields have good cell phone (=internet) coverage.

Distance is no problem: Correction come fast no mater how far you go. But of course single base RTK corrections are less accurate to further you go from base. But even at 25-30 km it is way better than Range-point, Omnistar or not to even mention EGNOS...

Free caster software for base is available. For example www.use-snip.com. Has versions for both Windows and Ubuntu Linux. Requirements for PC hardware are quite minimal.

Free Android phone/tablet client software: Lefefure NTRIP-client from Google Play is great.
Blue-tooth serial adapters to get the corrections from Android device to the display cost between some 50 - 150.

If your display has a built in NTRP client and SIM-card it even easier.

Go ahead!

Displays are Topcon x30’s - would they have ntrip built in ? I’m fairly sure I have seen SIM slots in the receivers

It’s just the additional hardware for the base I would need it seems ?

 

[Northern farmer]

Would it cost that from your own base station ? Surely my only cost would be data while the ntrip was in use ? Rest of the time it could run on radio ?

Exactly, no RTK subscription costs in the case of a private base. You would need an NTRIP caster at the base. A laptop if the base HW does not have any integrated caster option (50 Euro investment). Topcon should be straightforward at the rover side.

The only running cost would be the SIM card subscription for each rover. I interpret the base has "free" internet access.

 

[Northern farmer]

Displays are Topcon x30’s - would they have ntrip built in ? I’m fairly sure I have seen SIM slots in the receivers

It’s just the additional hardware for the base I would need it seems ?

The SIM card is not in the X30 but the GNSS receiver (AGI-4?). X30 allows you to configure your GNSS receiver for NTRIP.

I run both radio and NTRIP on an AGCO variant of the X30/AGI-4 (as well as another AGCO variant of the AGI-4 on a Fendt).

 

[Clive]

The SIM card is not in the X30 but the GNSS receiver (AGI-4?). X30 allows you to configure your GNSS receiver for NTRIP.

I run both radio and NTRIP on an AGCO variant of the X30/AGI-4 (as well as another AGCO variant of the AGI-4 on a Fendt).

I think we have 3 machines on agi-3 and 1 on agi-4 all with radios plus class oe system on the combine with radio

 

[Soon_60]

One more thing is needed at the caster (base). To be able to connect to the base to get the correction stream to the client (=tractor) you must have

1) of fixed IP number for internet. This is usually somewhat costly.

or

2) use a DDNS service to be able to make your own www.name for your base (like myrtkbase.xxx.xx...).
I myself use no-ip.com for that.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

One more thing is needed at the caster (base). To be able to connect to the base to get the correction stream to the client (=tractor) you must have

1) of fixed IP number for internet. This is usually somewhat costly.

or

2) use a DDNS service to be able to make your own www.name for your base (like myrtkbase.xxx.xx...).
I myself use no-ip.com for that.

If going down the DDNS route, a device on your network (laptop, pc or the router itself) which is needed to run a DDNS client to tell the DDNS servers when your routers public IP address has changed. But again that’s no real biggy.

The only time DDNS runs up against problems is when for example you would be using a 4G router type device to connect say the base to the internet. Purely because the way 4G type connections are allocated IP addresses isn’t compatible with DDNS. Otherwise for normal home and business DSL (telephone wire) and cable internet connections it works a treat.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I think we have 3 machines on agi-3 and 1 on agi-4 all with radios plus class oe system on the combine with radio

The client machines are pretty easy to setup. All those receivers that have RTK snap in modules have a dual radio (UHF and cellular). They all have SIM card slots and are relatively straightforward to get up and running.

Check your base receiver has NTRIP. What model of Topcon receiver is it? If it’s got an RJ45 Ethernet port on it, odds on it’s got an NTRIP caster which can be enabled. Otherwise as said, configure the receiver to send corrections to a spare serial port on the receiver and connect that to an old pc or laptop and run the NTRIP caster from that.

 

[Clive]

One more thing is needed at the caster (base). To be able to connect to the base to get the correction stream to the client (=tractor) you must have

1) of fixed IP number for internet. This is usually somewhat costly.

or

2) use a DDNS service to be able to make your own www.name for your base (like myrtkbase.xxx.xx...).
I myself use no-ip.com for that.

It’s within cat 5 distance the fibre broadband router at my office which already has fixed IP so won’t hsve that cost I guess