Family farms - how do you cope?

[Bruce Almighty]

My Grandmother used to tell my Dad, "when I die you will get nothing"
As it turned out he was treated equally with his brother & sister

Dad regularly said to me "when I die you will get nothing" the emotional blackmail was horrible
Many of the arguments we had were because we were skint & he daren't take risks when I wanted to expand & grow.
A few years later with my much younger brother some opportunities came our way and fortunately we were successful
When he did die we became relatively wealthy, partly thanks to him but it was mainly due to the work me & my brother put in.

I now jokingly tell my son "when I die you will be a wealthy man"
He says "I'll already be wealthy by then" and as long as he's happy, I hope he is

 

[Derrick Hughes]

@Cowabunga , the farm now is smaller than when John Jones Penwern Estate's Cilcennin owned it in 1890, when he bought Glanbran next door for £950. A lot of money back then, losing most of his family in France in the 1st World war would have truly broke his heart im sure , the estate was slowly broken up after

 

[icanshootwell]

If you're not happy, and can't see the future improving, walk away. The earlier this is done the better.

At the age of 20/21 I paid my mother mortgage for 12 months. This prevented our family home being repossessed.

A couple of years later the house was sold. My sister received a mortgage free house and 40+ acres of grazing with a small building.

I was paid back my £10k. I used to spend my "free" time working on the place, improving fencing and water infrastructure. However, I was allowed zero input.

The best thing I ever did was tell them all to get stuffed and go my own way.

Good on you.

 

[glasshouse]

That's a bit harsh...who are you to say "they should get nothing"? I am glad you are not my sibling

If they havent contributed to the business, why should they get anything?
They will have had fees paid and flats bought etc and will have good pensions.
They will not have had to tighten their belts in bad decades like 97-2006 to keep the business afloat, missed out on holidays, family time etc
What they did miss was getting moaned at every day

 

[glasshouse]

If you're not happy, and can't see the future improving, walk away. The earlier this is done the better.

At the age of 20/21 I paid my mother mortgage for 12 months. This prevented our family home being repossessed.

A couple of years later the house was sold. My sister received a mortgage free house and 40+ acres of grazing with a small building.

I was paid back my £10k. I used to spend my "free" time working on the place, improving fencing and water infrastructure. However, I was allowed zero input.

The best thing I ever did was tell them all to get stuffed and go my own way.

Exactly my point
If i hadnt worked for sfa in 1985-1990, doing allsorts to keep cash coming inthere would have been nothing to pass on

 

[glasshouse]

Problem as I see it with giving nothing to the one who goes away, is that the value of buildings and property is now so inflated above its real agricultural value that it becomes unfair to hand the lot over just because one child has lacked the ambition to go out and carve their own path.
When we had to divide things up, it was obvious that the rental and development value of the buildings was far greater than anything I would earn from using them for farming, so I made sure mum divided it all equally. This ensures that my big sis is provided for when she retires and we all work as a family. As she has spent a lifetime in estate management and organizing functions, she will be a valuable help when she can devote time to the property and her career away has made her far better at such things than I could be.

Lack of ambition, fudge off!!!
That is very unfair on the one who takes up the reins.
I was handed half the reins very early as my father was nearly a full time politician

 

[Red Fred]

Lack of ambition, fudge off!!!
That is very unfair on the one who takes up the reins.
I was handed half the reins very early as my father was nearly a full time politician

I'm not saying all farmer's sons are lacking in ambition, I'm in the same boat myself, but there are often two sides to every story and I know some who are just sitting it out expecting to inherit the lot. No offence intended.

 

[Goweresque]

How are these payments accounted for in the partnership accounts then, and who pays the tax on them? If the partnership is paying out cash for a non-partner's living expenses, surely the partners are paying tax on that as a personal drawing?

edit: wrong thread, meant to post in the one on family drawings!

 

[Sheila Cooke]

Hi Folks, @Crofter64 invited me to join the conversation. I read your dialogue with empathy. Holistic Management provides a means for breaking through an impasse between decision makers on farms, and provides a new way forward. It's called creating a Holistic Context, which is used to guide decision-making. It's about defining the quality of life the decision-makers want, and provides a means of making decisions that step-by-step lead to quality of life. It really works. I don't have a good video to send on this. But, somebody please ask me a question, and I'll do my best to reply.

 

[worker]

I'm not saying all farmer's sons are lacking in ambition, I'm in the same boat myself, but there are often two sides to every story and I know some who are just sitting it out expecting to inherit the lot. No offence intended.

I guess that for every sibling who feels that their siblings should not be entitled to any of their parents assets because they left the farm to forge their own careers off the farm, there are sons or daughter who were told "you get nothing, leave the farm as it is it is all going to your brother/sister". Parents can sometimes be so insensitive, and if we are not careful it can divide families. Bitterness can eat into you, and it can be hard to move on and stay friends with your siblings unless one of you can put it behind you. Money is great, but getting on with your family is even better.

 

[som farmer]

I guess that for every sibling who feels that their siblings should not be entitled to any of their parents assets because they left the farm to forge their own careers off the farm, there are sons or daughter who were told "you get nothing, leave the farm as it is it is all going to your brother/sister". Parents can sometimes be so insensitive, and if we are not careful it can divide families. Bitterness can eat into you, and it can be hard to move on and stay friends with your siblings unless one of you can put it behind you. Money is great, but getting on with your family is even better.

my 2 sisters, and I do not speak, they speak to my mother, I don't, she hasn't seen her greatgrandchildren, nor been invited to ones wedding, on my side. All down to money, greed, and what I can only describe as hatred, of the farm. My old man had many faults, but he always tried to keep the family 'together', he would be turning in his grave, if he knew what happened.

 

[worker]

my 2 sisters, and I do not speak, they speak to my mother, I don't, she hasn't seen her greatgrandchildren, nor been invited to ones wedding, on my side. All down to money, greed, and what I can only describe as hatred, of the farm. My old man had many faults, but he always tried to keep the family 'together', he would be turning in his grave, if he knew what happened.

so sad.

 

[Landrover]

I dread the day when something happens to my parents, I have a brother and sister brother works on the farm too but him and his family are very "entitled" and will be expecting to get the lot, sister has always been the apple of mum and dad's eye (even though she's in her 40s and seemingly unable to manage a grown up life) and I expect her to be treated likewise in the wills, me, I don't expect much apart from a large inheritance tax bill and hopefully enough left over to buy a property somewhere ! I understand completely why my parents haven't passed things on yet land and property wise as my siblings would go on a spending spree funded by borrowing against it, me I'm afraid is far to boring for things like that !

 

[pgk]

I imagine most family meetings would go a little like Brian Clough discussions....

I think he tried that with the taxman but strangely taxman didn't agree with him!

 

[pgk]

The only answer is for farm subsidies to stop at age70

But then my fil wouldn't be able to feed all his pet coos!?

 

[Nearly]

My Grandmother used to tell my Dad, "when I die you will get nothing"
As it turned out he was treated equally with his brother & sister

Dad regularly said to me "when I die you will get nothing" the emotional blackmail was horrible
Many of the arguments we had were because we were skint & he daren't take risks when I wanted to expand & grow.
A few years later with my much younger brother some opportunities came our way and fortunately we were successful
When he did die we became relatively wealthy, partly thanks to him but it was mainly due to the work me & my brother put in.

I now jokingly tell my son "when I die you will be a wealthy man"
He says "I'll already be wealthy by then" and as long as he's happy, I hope he is

We tell our 2 that they'll get what's left.
At 21 and 18 they already have a stake in the farm after I changed Dad's will to miss me out with a lump.
They'll get bits signed over as life catches up with me and Mrs N.

 

[yellow belly]

My rules for a family run farm Learned from my experience my fathers and grandfathers
pay everyone who does work the rate for the job however young (the younger they start the better the skill of hard working is learned and being rewarded reinforces that )
encourage youngsters to invest their earnings a calf ,an acre of crop , etc the money is in the farm but they see their bit
encourage every one to get as well educated as they are capable of
farmers need to be good at all sciences maths and able to read
go to ag college My grand father who farmed from 1920s to the 1970s never went to college but he said his son learnt in 3 years what he had taken a life time to learn
3 years of college at the start is the best investment for a lifetime in farming ( it does not have to be an expensive degree although the loan system Repayment can be avoided with careful planning )

every one in the family should get their share of their parents assets
if those who work on the farm are paid and invested in the farm their assets will be bigger
The farm should pay rent for land and buildings with a formal tenancy ( rent can be reinvested in the farm or invested to payout non farming family )

every one in the family should be well informed of the share of the parents assets in the will never leave anything joint owned there is less to fall out over but when money is involved some people will fall out
life’s too short


a good machine operater or stockman ect is worth over £30000 if full time and fully occupied
a rent free house may have value but an owned house does increase in value as fast as the rent less interest
in the1980s a house was a very good investment worth hundreds of thousand for 10s of thousand investment
investing In farmland was also a good investment

 

[Grassman247]

The only thing thst gets handed down on tenanted farms is the overdraft.
The next generation have to keep the older ones going

Why do tenanted farms hand down an overdraft? [emoji848]

 

[kiwi pom]

If you're not happy, and can't see the future improving, walk away. The earlier this is done the better.

At the age of 20/21 I paid my mother mortgage for 12 months. This prevented our family home being repossessed.

A couple of years later the house was sold. My sister received a mortgage free house and 40+ acres of grazing with a small building.

I was paid back my £10k. I used to spend my "free" time working on the place, improving fencing and water infrastructure. However, I was allowed zero input.

The best thing I ever did was tell them all to get stuffed and go my own way.

I always wonder why people hang around so long. Is it the fact that farms are worth so much these days? You hear of a lot of cases where nothing happens and no one seems to know what's going on but they're all too scared to say anything because no one wants to be written out of the game early, perhaps better to just hang round and hope for the best.
I can understand someone leaving school and staying on the farm for little more than board and lodgings, it may even be easier than going out into the world. But when time moves on and you have a wife and kids but still don't sort anything and worse still when you're willing to lose them over a bit of dirt, that amazes me.
At some point you have to be a man about it and look after your family.

 

[glasshouse]

I always wonder why people hang around so long. Is it the fact that farms are worth so much these days? You hear of a lot of cases where nothing happens and no one seems to know what's going on but they're all too scared to say anything because no one wants to be written out of the game early, perhaps better to just hang round and hope for the best.
I can understand someone leaving school and staying on the farm for little more than board and lodgings, it may even be easier than going out into the world. But when time moves on and you have a wife and kids but still don't sort anything and worse still when you're willing to lose them over a bit of dirt, that amazes me.
At some point you have to be a man about it and look after your family.

Because when you are forty and father is 65 everything is fine.
Scroll forward 15 yrs
55 and knackered
Father 80 and losing it. Or lost it.
Wants to leave it all to the tory party/cat and dog home
Where are you going to go at 55 and what are u going to do.?
Ps, i left home at 30