Family perks from the farm.

[kiwi pom]

We use a proper accountant and everything goes through the books and is taxed accordingly.

All I wanted to know was does it go on elsewhere.

I should think it does, I've certainly seen it in a lot of farming families I know, despite the farm supposedly making no money the kids all seem to do very well.
It seems In your case it's becoming a problem, no idea how old you are but it sounds like perhaps the money/succession side of the farm hasn't been sorted out. Perhaps now's the time to do it?

 

[Cowcalf]

As I use my own name rather than a user name , I won’t mention my salary, only 40% tax and BIK on a commercial , I pay tax on my fuel that I use for private use. I’m just saying that £20k of housing and bills is after tax no before so more like £30k per annum benefit

that's not a real photo of you thou surely

 

[MrNoo]

If he doesn’t take a wage then fair enough! Do you take a wage ?

Yes, £900/month

 

[farmerm]

To be honest I’d seriously think about swapping with my sister.

Eventually,she’ll get a wad of cash,I’ll get a farm,a bit like a ball and chain as I could never sell it.

Never say never, the current trajectory may force the position!

 

[roscoe erf]

And free woodworm

his woodworm free have you seen his prices that's not straw he is chewing that's rolled up fifty's

 

[roscoe erf]

that's not a real photo of you thou surely

probably but his names not Shirley

 

[Highland Mule]

So if you don’t pay yourself a wage, then how do you buy anything? Come on tell us all how to live with no food etc...

He’s an old codger - he’ll be getting pension income.

 

[coomoo]

Business should not be subsidising the living expenses/life style of anyone more to the point!

Agree if there is money coming out it should be structured as your sisters share. It’s totally understandable your fathers wish I get that, but I’m guessing at your stage in business your outlook is different. I will/would however stick to my guns and protect the farming business completely, a slow death serves no one.

 

[bobk]

He’s an old codger - he’ll be getting pension income.

Rearrange the following words , .....

 

[essexpete]

Which brings me to the point, I was talking to a rep for a firm recently who is in 30’s. the rep was bad mouthing an Ahdb report which was talking about profitability of sheep in a 500 flock. The ahdb had put a nominal salary for the farmer of £30k.
The rep was telling me how unrealistic it was as how many sheep farmers would take a salary like that!
The irony of the reps salary probably being higher was only lost on one of us, and it wasn’t me!

That rep may be an employee of a company with a salary plus a bonus for meeting sales targets. Might be taxed on a company car if used privately. May have expensive rent or mortgage rather than inherited property or cheap rent subsidised by farm rent...........

 

[essexpete]

I expect 90% of the population (probably more) would love to be faced with some of the problems above.
Looks like the critical discussion between those taking on a family business is often ducked (I think I have spelt that correctly) leading to uncomfortable or unsustainable results. There are so many differing situations including size and profitability of the business, fixed assets owned and directly or indirectly connected to the farm. Sons/daughters may sometimes not have a choice/chance but to work off farm if the income simply is not there on the farm. Does that mean they are not entitled to anything? I have known farming daughters that were never given an opportunity to be part of the business.
If the home farm working son/daughter is an employee then it is up to them to broach the subject of succession and preferably before the older generation is too old and frail and feeling threatened. If the senior partner or business owner chooses to subsidise an off farm family member from their taxed income then that might just be their own business. It needs to be discussed sensibly and probably with some annual figures and probably with the accountant present at some point.

 

[DrWazzock]

I get free firewood but I have to saw it myself.
I get a nice garden but look after it myself. Fruit out the orchard. The mice got some of that but got a new cat so problem sorted. I get pheasants for allowing them to shoot the beet but I dress them myself.
You rarely get owt for nowt.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

Business should not be subsidising the living expenses/life style of anyone more to the point!

Erm, but that's how capitalism works?

I have a contractual arrangement whereby the business I donate my time to then subsidises my living expenses and lifestyle in return...?

 

[Hampton]

That rep may be an employee of a company with a salary plus a bonus for meeting sales targets. Might be taxed on a company car if used privately. May have expensive rent or mortgage rather than inherited property or cheap rent subsidised by farm rent...........

And...
I’ve already said I have no qualms about what I do and explained my situation.
My point was that the rep thought it was ridiculous that the mock farm was taking a wage of £30k. As if farmers shouldn’t take that kind of a wage.

ive been employed by a firm with car and pension etc and I don’t begrudge any reps there money. On the other hand, it does feel like reps are begrudging of farmers sometimes

 

[Alan88]

I get a wage, life assurance & critical illness paid and heating oil paid for me. Everything else comes from me and my wife's wage.

We bought a house a couple of miles from the farm and to buy it mum lent us some money. We were going to build on the farm but we were never 100% happy so never happened. Glad we didn't as we have a house that can be sold in the future

 

[czechmate]

I get free firewood but I have to saw it myself.
I get a nice garden but look after it myself. Fruit out the orchard. The mice got some of that but got a new cat so problem sorted. I get pheasants for allowing them to shoot the beet but I dress them myself.
You rarely get owt for nowt.

But the farm runs the saw. Well, it certainly should. It blindingly obvious, you get the farm to pay for as many personal bills as you can possibly get what look like, legitimate receipts
Blimey, even as a kids, we were only allowed to buy jeans from one particular shop, as our dad had an agreement with the shop owner to give us receipts for overalls.

 

[rob1]

Plenty of employees get perks that arent taxed, cant see whats so wrong with a bit of firewood etc, we even had to pay tax on the milk we drank, dont see my missus paying tax from the coffee she drinks at work

 

[DrWazzock]

Whether it comes out of the farm or my personal account it still costs me.

Always amuses me when people say let's put it down on the farm account at Mole Valley or wherever. Probably costs you more in the end than buying out of your personal account at Tescos. Here anything is allocated to each partner if it is not purely an allowable farm expense and comes off their share of the profit. Only fair way. Otherwise it's open to abuse.

 

[czechmate]

He he, it made me chuckle a couple of years back, we deal with a general merchant a good bit. We get a long "war and peace" bill at the end of each month. My wife put 5kg of potatoe seed on the account. Accountant doing our audit pulled them out .
Of course, work on the car at the garage gets billed as work on a tractor etc etc.

 

[Bloders]

Plenty of employees get perks that arent taxed, cant see whats so wrong with a bit of firewood etc, we even had to pay tax on the milk we drank, dont see my missus paying tax from the coffee she drinks at work

just to cover the point, maybe her employer pays it.
a bit like i get an allowance to use my phone at work. The allowance is "tax free" but its not, my employer pays a higher cost than i receive, so that the tax is correctly deducted and i get my "tax free" allowance.