Farm safety

[Chae1]

don't mean to be sarcastic or a clever dick but should there be free range kids on the farm? i know ours were often out and about but with hindsight we were wrong. i take the point of the sign as a warning to visitors and as a reminder to all on the farm.

Don't worry it doesn't stop me!

I agree I don't feel there should be free range kids going about a farm either and there generally isn't. As they get older I guess the temptation to sneak down the farm will grow. We are lucky at main farm the house is a fair distance from farm. Where we live house is in middle of farm, but not much happens there!

Oldest child is 8 and it scares me how little sense around traffic and tractors he has. He was running along side sprayer tyre racing it when I came home other night. I stopped and gave him a bollocking.

 

[2wheels]

when we were kids we regularily fell into water troughs, burns and cattle midden bree. i fell down a corn loft stairs about 8ft onto concrete floor, was out for over an hour. did i sustain long term brain damage? probably some will say going by my posts . brother's cycle brakes failed going down a steep hill and went through a fence breaking bike in half, he was ok. our kids were on a slightly tighter rein. the point is we all took/take risks but nowadays accidents seem less forgiving probably due to size/weight/speed of machinery. happy farming everyone and stay safe.

 

[solo]

Bizarre thread when the op organises a hedgecutter for his dad’s open top tractor.

Took the afternoon off to help father get his new to him hedge cutter fitted to his little tractor . Lovely lit bit of kit. Bought as seen and not seen it running. Runs like a sewing machine . Whisper quiet View attachment 890157View attachment 890158

 

[Chae1]

Bizarre thread when the op organises a hedgecutter for his dad’s open top tractor.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[kiwi pom]

As a side thought...
If I want to go up a ladder or work at height I need safety gear or h&s would be after me.

But when I then go rock climbing, I some times free climb. But that's OK because it's not work...

Accidents happen and sadly farms seem to get more, but nearly all are self employed ppl who make the choice.
Unfortunately odd times ACCIDENTS happen. It's called and ACCIDENT for a reason.
Trouble now with the claim culture, there is never an accident, it's always some ones fault.

That's why I asked if the HSE bother that much with farms that don't employ anyone. If you want to go up your ladder and mess around on your dodgy roof, I don't see a problem with it. Although we could argue that it gives the one man band a commercial advantage.
But if you're sending an employee up there, that's a different matter, you're putting someone else at risk. H&S and farm assurance (though no one wants to admit it) have helped improve conditions on farms. No bad thing in my opinion.

 

[Highland Mule]

That's why I asked if the HSE bother that much with farms that don't employ anyone. If you want to go up your ladder and mess around on your dodgy roof, I don't see a problem with it. Although we could argue that it gives the one man band a commercial advantage.
But if you're sending an employee up there, that's a different matter, you're putting someone else at risk. H&S and farm assurance (though no one wants to admit it) have helped improve conditions on farms. No bad thing in my opinion.

Just have a think what “self employed” means. It doesn’t mean you’re not an employee, it means you’re an employee and an employer.

And no workplace death is without victims. At the least, there’s the poor sod who has to scrape the carcass off the floor.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Just have a think what “self employed” means. It doesn’t mean you’re not an employee, it means you’re an employee and an employer.

And no workplace death is without victims. At the least, there’s the poor sod who has to scrape the carcass off the floor.

The Health and Safety at work act 1974 applies to employees, employers and the self-employed equally. It is so broadly written that it is still the most common legislation used in prosecutions. It's actually quite a reasonable piece of legislation though. So long as you can prove that you've thought the risks through and managed then you have a defence.

As you say, even the unmarried single farmer who manages to kill themselves still affects the emergency service staff who scrape the remains up.

 

[Goweresque]

As you say, even the unmarried single farmer who manages to kill themselves still affects the emergency service staff who scrape the remains up.

You could say the same thing about people who indulge in dangerous sports. We don't prosecute them for breaching H&S legislation though............it makes no sense to me that a private individual can do as dangerous an activity as they like if it falls under 'domestic' activity, but the moment the same individual does something risky in the pursuit of money its a crime........

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

You could say the same thing about people who indulge in dangerous sports. We don't prosecute them for breaching H&S legislation though............it makes no sense to me that a private individual can do as dangerous an activity as they like if it falls under 'domestic' activity, but the moment the same individual does something risky in the pursuit of money its a crime........

Agreed but we don't have any safety law that applies to recreational activity (unless you're running a business doing it).

 

[kiwi pom]

Just have a think what “self employed” means. It doesn’t mean you’re not an employee, it means you’re an employee and an employer.

And no workplace death is without victims. At the least, there’s the poor sod who has to scrape the carcass off the floor.

I realise that but I don't really see how you can change how a farmer working on their own property is going to change what they do.
Horrible to say I know but I think its better if the HSE concentrates on those that employ others.

People that clean up after these accidents also clean up after road traffic accidents, sports injuries etc. We don't ban cars or sports.

The death stats posted up thread show that, better control of children by parents and a serious shake up of footpath regulations would show a reduction in deaths.

Over here Quad bike and other farm vehicle deaths should be at the top of the priority list.

 

[fieldfarmer]

Bizarre thread when the op organises a hedgecutter for his dad’s open top tractor.

And if said tractor tiped over while playing and resulted in a crush injury would it be classed a farming injury statistically?

 

[Lazy Sod]

It failed to quote.

 

[Lazy Sod]

Ditto

 

[Lazy Sod]

We are just starting the search for a farm to buy after selling up here.

You'll need a new user name.@holwellcourtfarm

 

[Robt]

Bizarre thread when the op organises a hedgecutter for his dad’s open top tractor.

Indeed but we have had 11 pages now with us all discussing safety. And the fact you have all picked up on my crazy father is excellent! Shows we do all think about safety!

 

[ollie989898]

The problem is, the HSE, like any government organisation, will be staffed by people of whom a proportion of which will never know enough about agriculture as their expertise will be in something else. Without that, how can you advise someone on the risks? It is true there is a wide spectrum in how health and safety is viewed within agriculture. You will have some businesses where it is high on the agenda and others where scant attention is paid. There have been instances where the HSE and courts seems to act in a very heavy handed way. Remember that truck driver that got killed tipping his truck in a layby and it caught some overhead lines? How in the world can a company envisage that accident, much less assess the risk of it? Human nature means that a certain percentage of accidents are nearly impossible to foresee or predict but the HSE seem to believe a goal of 0 accidents is totally achievable. It may well be for many high-risk industries but the cost and complexity of making it so would render the job involved a non-starter and I fear with the way in which most industries are experiencing regulatory capture these days the UK is in grave danger of rendering itself totally noncompetitive internationally in the future.

That said, if you think the HSE is outright bad and should be done away with, I would point you to the USA where serious industrial accidents are occurring routinely and businesses walk away scot-free the bulk of the time. I noticed talk of HSE rules on compressor reservoir tanks on TFF- did you know that in the whole of the US state of Texas, a major centre for oil production and refining, there is no state law whatsoever governing the maintenance or inspection of pressure vessels of any size whatsoever? That is madness we would all agree.

 

[Goweresque]

Indeed but we have had 11 pages now with us all discussing safety. And the fact you have all picked up on my crazy father is excellent! Shows we do all think about safety!

But your fathers situation is instructive for the industry as a whole.

Its obvious from the stats that elderly people are far more likely to be involved in fatal accidents on farms than younger people. Now if your father is retired but still owns some land (say rented out) and wants to keep it tidy and (for want of a better term) play at still farming, despite not being in business any more, or indeed needing to be, then any accident that occurs to him will not be seen as an agricultural one, as he's not in business. It would be the same as if your ride on mower turns over and you get injured mowing your lawn. Nothing to do with H&S.

But if an identical elderly person who is nominally still 'in business' because he's a business partner decides he wants to continue being actively involved in the day to day work of the farm despite not needing to, and being well over retirement age then any accidents he has will count towards the agricultural count. In both cases its a personal choice to continue working with dangerous equipment and livestock well beyond the age when that is sensible, but one attracts the ire of the HSE and one doesn't. Equally if an elderly person decides to go horse riding and is injured we declare that its their personal choice to indulge in such dangerous activities and no legal consequences ensue.

I would therefore argue that any person over the National Pension age who continues active physical work on a farm should be considered to be voluntarily undertaking a dangerous activity where he or she stands a far greater risk than a younger person and that any accidents they have should not count towards the agricultural stats. They should be purely calculated from those of working age, not people who in any other line of work would be sat at home watching Countdown. Basically the rest of the industry should not be castigated if elderly people want to put themselves in harms way and have accidents as a result.

 

[Ivorbiggun]

With harvest Coming up most farms will fail on one thing.
They have a duty to supply a safe working environment for their staff.
Now if their working the staff 16/17 hours a day, meaning they’ll only get at most 5 hours sleep a night, after several days of this no one can be deemed to be safe, let alone after several weeks of it.
With most large farms employing harvest students (who most of them I wouldn’t put in charge of a empty wheelbarrow)
they have no experience of handling a 30/40 ton vehicle belting down narrow country lanes because they’ve been told the combine must not stop.
Put all this together and it’s an accident waiting to happen.
But will things ever change, not untill h&s/vosa get more involved or there’s a fatality.