Farm saved seed

[Mr Tree]

I usually dress around 10-12 tonne of my own wheat seed.
This year I was for various reasons including grass weeds was going to buy ‘c2 seed’ from the merchant.

However having received orders /invoice for £575 a tonne and now falling prices I’m thinking home save what I’ve got again( after looking for a tramline or two of very clean wheat)

This wheat will be essentially C3 ,will there be any problems ?

What prices does everyone generally pay for seed cleaning/dressing?

cheers

 

[Phil P]

I usually dress around 10-12 tonne of my own wheat seed.
This year I was for various reasons including grass weeds was going to buy ‘c2 seed’ from the merchant.

However having received orders /invoice for £575 a tonne and now falling prices I’m thinking home save what I’ve got again( after looking for a tramline or two of very clean wheat)

This wheat will be essentially C3 ,will there be any problems ?

What prices does everyone generally pay for seed cleaning/dressing?

cheers

Until last year most of our wheat had been farm saved for at least 4-5 years, 10 days of wet weather at the beginning of August caused some spriting and bugged up the germination on a couple of varieties so had to buy in some new seed.
Barley is at least 5 years fss though and no problems.
Cost will depend on seed dressing but usually £70-80/t, I only ever use single purpose.

 

[Lincsman]

I usually dress around 10-12 tonne of my own wheat seed.
This year I was for various reasons including grass weeds was going to buy ‘c2 seed’ from the merchant.

However having received orders /invoice for £575 a tonne and now falling prices I’m thinking home save what I’ve got again( after looking for a tramline or two of very clean wheat)

This wheat will be essentially C3 ,will there be any problems ?

What prices does everyone generally pay for seed cleaning/dressing?

cheers

No problem at all, and I now keep a trailer load off the combine to go straight in the drill

 

[Farmer Roy]

FSS is worth whatever you could sell it for at harvest, along with storage costs . . .

 

[Zippy768]

Until last year most of our wheat had been farm saved for at least 4-5 years, 10 days of wet weather at the beginning of August caused some spriting and bugged up the germination on a couple of varieties so had to buy in some new seed.
Barley is at least 5 years fss though and no problems.
Cost will depend on seed dressing but usually £70-80/t, I only ever use single purpose.

How do you ensure there is no wheat in your Winter barley seed?

 

[Old apprentice]

I presume a lot of combine and dryer cleaning would be the only way?

 

[fieldfarmer]

How do you ensure there is no wheat in your Winter barley seed?

We do a couple of stale seedbeds pree drilling on the area destined for barely seed.

 

[Phil P]

How do you ensure there is no wheat in your Winter barley seed?

We have some ground in continuous winter barley, it’s either that or grow after beet or canary seed which we can spray out.

 

[yellow belly]

How do you ensure there is no wheat in your Winter barley seed?

grow a bit of barley as a first cereal

 

[Jo28]

We grew fss viscount for 11 years on the bounce, starting to look like quite a few off types this year so will be it's last.

 

[thorpe]

if i get a good variety ill go on and on and on a itll still be abetter sample than the c2 we buy!

 

[Ploughmaster]

There is a reason why there is no such thing as third generation certified seed and why seed companies don't market C2+1 seed - that far down the line it is likely to have picked up genetic material from other varieties via wind-blown pollen from neighbouring fields and they cannot guarantee a sufficient level of varietal purity.

In reality C2+1 is likely to be fine (deviation from the original variety are likely to be pretty insignificant), but subsequent generations are likely to begin to develop characteristics which will increasingly deviate from those of the original named variety.

I've seen first-hand the degree of painstaking manual (and labour intensive) rogueing that seed companies do in early generations (to the extent of inspecting each ear in a purification or maintenance plot with a magnifying glass), and the degree of shielding needed in the early multiplication generations (triticale and rye surrounds to provide a 'wall' against pollen blown from other plots).

Due to the inevitable cross fertilisation from wind-blown pollen from neighbouring fields of different varieties, I would say that the likelihood of anything much beyond C2+1 being 'true' to the original variety characteristics is slim, and it would not be possible (or wise) to attribute a specific variety name to it.

 

[Jo28]

There is a reason why there is no such thing as third generation certified seed and why seed companies don't market C2+1 seed - that far down the line it is likely to have picked up genetic material from other varieties via wind-blown pollen from neighbouring fields and they cannot guarantee a sufficient level of varietal purity.

In reality C2+1 is likely to be fine (deviation from the original variety are likely to be pretty insignificant), but subsequent generations are likely to begin to develop characteristics which will increasingly deviate from those of the original named variety.

I've seen first-hand the degree of painstaking manual (and labour intensive) rogueing that seed companies do in early generations (to the extent of inspecting each ear in a purification or maintenance plot with a magnifying glass), and the degree of shielding needed in the early multiplication generations (triticale and rye surrounds to provide a 'wall' against pollen blown from other plots).

Due to the inevitable cross fertilisation from wind-blown pollen from neighbouring fields of different varieties, I would say that the likelihood of anything much beyond C2+1 being 'true' to the original variety characteristics is slim, and it would not be possible (or wise) to attribute a specific variety name to it.

possibly true but in the 11 continuous years we grew viscount we weren't let down by it once. In fact we went through multiple new varieties that didn't perform as well.

 

[neilo]

Due to the inevitable cross fertilisation from wind-blown pollen from neighbouring fields of different varieties, I would say that the likelihood of anything much beyond C2+1 being 'true' to the original variety characteristics is slim, and it would not be possible (or wise) to attribute a specific variety name to it.

That sounds like a good argument for challenging the requirement to pay royalties for FSS, based on the variety.

 

[fieldfarmer]

That sounds like a good argument for challenging the requirement to pay royalties for FSS, based on the variety.

Yep, perfect,
Pay for c2 + 1yr then rename as farm name including Yr, easy .

 

[fieldfarmer]

There is a reason why there is no such thing as third generation certified seed and why seed companies don't market C2+1 seed - that far down the line it is likely to have picked up genetic material from other varieties via wind-blown pollen from neighbouring fields and they cannot guarantee a sufficient level of varietal purity.

In reality C2+1 is likely to be fine (deviation from the original variety are likely to be pretty insignificant), but subsequent generations are likely to begin to develop characteristics which will increasingly deviate from those of the original named variety.

I've seen first-hand the degree of painstaking manual (and labour intensive) rogueing that seed companies do in early generations (to the extent of inspecting each ear in a purification or maintenance plot with a magnifying glass), and the degree of shielding needed in the early multiplication generations (triticale and rye surrounds to provide a 'wall' against pollen blown from other plots).

Due to the inevitable cross fertilisation from wind-blown pollen from neighbouring fields of different varieties, I would say that the likelihood of anything much beyond C2+1 being 'true' to the original variety characteristics is slim, and it would not be possible (or wise) to attribute a specific variety name to it.

What would be your opinion on purchased c2 seed that on booting a large portion had already reverted back to one of the parents, is it still "true to variety" or not?

 

[Clive]

I usually dress around 10-12 tonne of my own wheat seed.
This year I was for various reasons including grass weeds was going to buy ‘c2 seed’ from the merchant.

However having received orders /invoice for £575 a tonne and now falling prices I’m thinking home save what I’ve got again( after looking for a tramline or two of very clean wheat)

This wheat will be essentially C3 ,will there be any problems ?

What prices does everyone generally pay for seed cleaning/dressing?

cheers

this is the level of “big ag” brainwashing i find very sad in uk ag - when a farmer no longer believes or knows if a seed will grow

of courses it will ! - do you think our ancestors had c1 /2 certified seed ? we have crops here grown from seed bought a decade ago in some cases

 

[robbie]

this is the level of “big ag” brainwashing i find very sad in uk ag - when a farmer no longer believes or knows if a seed will grow

of courses it will ! - do you think our ancestors had c1 /2 certified seed ? we have crops here grown from seed bought a decade ago in some cases

Exactly.
I find it sad that a huge proportion of farmers just blindly go along with what the trade let's them.
Once you start questioning things then the truth and the potential savings become very apparent.

 

[Lincsman]

There is a reason why there is no such thing as third generation certified seed and why seed companies don't market C2+1 seed - that far down the line it is likely to have picked up genetic material from other varieties via wind-blown pollen from neighbouring fields and they cannot guarantee a sufficient level of varietal purity.

In reality C2+1 is likely to be fine (deviation from the original variety are likely to be pretty insignificant), but subsequent generations are likely to begin to develop characteristics which will increasingly deviate from those of the original named variety.

I've seen first-hand the degree of painstaking manual (and labour intensive) rogueing that seed companies do in early generations (to the extent of inspecting each ear in a purification or maintenance plot with a magnifying glass), and the degree of shielding needed in the early multiplication generations (triticale and rye surrounds to provide a 'wall' against pollen blown from other plots).

Due to the inevitable cross fertilisation from wind-blown pollen from neighbouring fields of different varieties, I would say that the likelihood of anything much beyond C2+1 being 'true' to the original variety characteristics is slim, and it would not be possible (or wise) to attribute a specific variety name to it.

Try growing skyfall for 10 years, see how many grow without awns.. an easy spot for "off" types.

 

[Mr Tree]

this is the level of “big ag” brainwashing i find very sad in uk ag - when a farmer no longer believes or knows if a seed will grow

of courses it will ! - do you think our ancestors had c1 /2 certified seed ? we have crops here grown from seed bought a decade ago in some cases

Didn’t or never implied it wouldn’t grow!
I asked a simple question as to the general downsides of keeping an extra year v buying c2?

I often have in the past but with pressures from grassweeds I thought a clean slate would help.
Prices far higher on order than I anticipated with falling wheat values.

Where did brain washing come from?