Farm subsidies.. Yay or nay

[Henarar]

This is exactly the problem.
Ive read on TFF many times posts bemoaning the millennials as the ‘entitlement’ generation and those who claim social services support as public purse parasites.
My observation and experience is that some in agriculture are actually far worse as they not only get funded for doing nothing but feel entitled to be so for some odd reason. The only sensible and sustainable way subsidy can continue will have to be results based, wether production or environmental. Personally I can’t see subsidy continuing for any private enterprises if we want to maintain public services as they currently exist.

child production that's a private enterprise yes you are correct the subs should stop
that should save a quid or two

 

[ajd132]

This is exactly the problem.
Ive read on TFF many times posts bemoaning the millennials as the ‘entitlement’ generation and those who claim social services support as public purse parasites.
My observation and experience is that some in agriculture are actually far worse as they not only get funded for doing nothing but feel entitled to be so for some odd reason. The only sensible and sustainable way subsidy can continue will have to be results based, wether production or environmental. Personally I can’t see subsidy continuing for any private enterprises if we want to maintain public services as they currently exist.

I find it very odd that one generation like to basically blame their children for everything. Weird attitude.
They should really be apologising to us millennials for ruining the economy and causing catastrophic global warming

 

[Dave645]

This says it all. The full article as shared earlier in the thread.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...-bill-evidence-slide-pack-direct-payments.pdf

Basicly the top 10% get over £185k each that’s 8500 farmers getting close to 825million
While the small farmers The bottom third 28,333 get less than 5k so less than £141 million, between them.
No wonder the big have been getting bigger at the expence of family farms.
The system needs turning on its head to make it work the other way around. Bring people back on the land.
I do think that farming, especially in bad years needs support, but not the current blanket system.
I think the industry needs management as much as money, over production is our enemy, if we took the farming budget and took off £650 million and used that to get new entrants into the industry and helped diversify production into imported foods then, we as an industry would be better off.
We need help identifying our over production and with taking control of the markets as much as possible. It’s not market control more production control. What’s the point of exporting at a loss for any farmer.
The British public have been supportive of British farmers, but the supermarkets haven’t been.
Maybe, Make supermarkets stock as much British food as imported, the times I visit the meat counter and can struggle to find British meat on the main shelf areas.

 

[7610 super q]

View attachment 810522 This says it all. The full article as shared earlier in the thread.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...-bill-evidence-slide-pack-direct-payments.pdf

Basicly the top 10% get over £185k each that’s 8500 farmers getting close to 825million
While the small farmers The bottom third 28,333 get less than 5k so less than £141 million, between them.
No wonder the big have been getting bigger at the expence of family farms.
The system needs turning on its head to make it work the other way around. Bring people back on the land.
I do think that farming, especially in bad years needs support, but not the current blanket system.
I think the industry needs management as much as money, over production is our enemy, if we took the farming budget and took off £650 million and used that to get new entrants into the industry and helped diversify production into imported foods then, we as an industry would be better off.
We need help identifying our over production and with taking control of the markets as much as possible. It’s not market control more production control. What’s the point of exporting at a loss for any farmer.
The British public have been supportive of British farmers, but the supermarkets haven’t been.
Maybe, Make supermarkets stock as much British food as imported, the times I visit the meat counter and can struggle to find British meat on the main shelf areas.

Top post. I'm not fused whether we get subs, or not, or who gets what per say, but if the original aim of the CAP was to keep folks on the land, it's failed miserably. If it had been capped both ways, £100k tops, and £25k bottom, then we wouldn't have lost 52% of farmers since 1972.
It doesn't sit right with me either that those that get the most dictate that the system continues ( anti Brexit ) , or worse, lobbies to change the system to their advantage, as happened in 2004-05 when NFU Wales lobbied Welsh MP's to get WAG to use the historic scheme. f**king disgraceful.

 

[Farmer Roy]

If it's scrapped then the consumer would have to start paying for the real costs of production on the weekly food bill, any government that imposes that would be commiting suicide.

Err, maybe the cost of production needs to come down

Just saying . . .

 

[fgc325j]

Top post. I'm not fused whether we get subs, or not, or who gets what per say, but if the original aim of the CAP was to keep folks on the land, it's failed miserably. If it had been capped both ways, £100k tops, and £25k bottom, then we wouldn't have lost 52% of farmers since 1972.
It doesn't sit right with me either that those that get the most dictate that the system continues ( anti Brexit ) , or worse, lobbies to change the system to their advantage, as happened in 2004-05 when NFU Wales lobbied Welsh MP's to get WAG to use the historic scheme. fudgeing disgraceful.

I remember when the SFP started, in 2005/6, that several advisers said that farmer's "should bank
the SFP and farm without it". Playing Devil's Advocate i would argue that these farmer's should now have
a v. large sum in their bank accounts, and even at pee-poor interest paid out these days, should have a nice
cushion when the new environmental payments come in, which, from the few postings on here, suggest that
farmers will receive half what they are getting now. Of course those farmers who invested their SFP off-farm,
BTL etc, they will be able to weather the storm from the new scheme very well.

 

[rich75]

I remember when the SFP started, in 2005/6, that several advisers said that farmer's "should bank
the SFP and farm without it". Playing Devil's Advocate i would argue that these farmer's should now have
a v. large sum in their bank accounts, and even at pee-poor interest paid out these days, should have a nice
cushion when the new environmental payments come in, which, from the few postings on here, suggest that
farmers will receive half what they are getting now. Of course those farmers who invested their SFP off-farm,
BTL etc, they will be able to weather the storm from the new scheme very well.

What have you done with your Sfp?
Mine payed the rent.
The only one's who would of banked there's would more likely been land owners.

 

[Henarar]

I remember when the SFP started, in 2005/6, that several advisers said that farmer's "should bank
the SFP and farm without it

yep best thing to do as the payment has nothing to do with your farming

 

[Top Tip.]

Err, maybe the cost of production needs to come down

Just saying . . .

Good luck with that one!! Let us know when you have cracked it.

 

[fgc325j]

What have you done with your Sfp?
Mine payed the rent.
The only one's who would of banked there's would more likely been land owners.

My SFP is under 15K, and over the last few years, since i've been approaching 60, a larger
%age is being invested off-farm in order to provide a passive income when i'm "older". I
don't bulls**t myself that in a few years time that i will have the "get up and go" i used to
have.

 

[fgc325j]

My SFP is under 15K, and over the last few years, since i've been approaching 60, a larger
%age is being invested off-farm in order to provide a passive income when i'm "older". I
don't bullpoo myself that in a few years time that i will have the "get up and go" i used to
have.

I apologise - i typed in bull***t not bullpoo

 

[Davy_g]

How do they induce over production . Take away the smaller family farms and they will be taken over by the bigger farming companies, who will look to produce from every acre.

Farmers can and do work for a loss due to subsidies producing beef that suppresses the market.
If you take away subs then there would be a dramatic reduction in supply. Supply would in time balance with demand at a fair market price.

 

[Bossfarmer]

No, scrap them. Our customers know we're getting them and factor it into price we get.

are our suppliers all getting rich? from what i see farm supply companies/machinery dealers have tight margins too and the minimum wage of their staff wont drop supposing farmers subs are scrapped what is it now near 9/hr?

 

[Henarar]

Farmers can and do work for a loss due to subsidies producing beef that suppresses the market.
If you take away subs then there would be a dramatic reduction in supply. Supply would in time balance with demand at a fair market price.

OK that's fine then

 

[Top Tip.]

I don’t think anyone has stated the fact that the reason for subsidies is to supply cheap food to the masses,in this respect i would say they have been very successful and any government that removed them would really be playing with fire.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Lots of talk about no till being the best funded, but I've yet to see any decent proposals by the powers that be. It's not a magic bullet & simply does not suit all farms.

Gove has already back traced on supporting farms that increase soil organic matter, mostly on the basis of unreliable testing methods.

Researchers can't agree a single, clear, affordably measurable definition of soil health so what chance has DEFRA /RPA got?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Can't see tractor prices dropping with them gone.

Stop buying them then!

 

[Tarw Coch]

Farmers can and do work for a loss due to subsidies producing beef that suppresses the market.
If you take away subs then there would be a dramatic reduction in supply. Supply would in time balance with demand at a fair market price.

That or more would be imported to make up the shortfall.

 

[Bossfarmer]

https://assets.publishing.service.g...-bill-evidence-slide-pack-direct-payments.pdf

DEFRA articles showing the glorious benefits of removing subsidies (aka taking money from the farmers)

Don’t get me wrong i’m sure they will put measures in place to protect markets. Environmental schemes will be flooded with incentives.

But its when the reports (written by experts apparently) say things like better business planning will make up for subsidy loss, less use of antibiotics, diversifying more....

Most farmers are already doing all they can.... but the response from policy seems to be work harder... madness

its complete ignorance from the government, why dont they lower the uk minimum wage and tell the public to be more efficient with their expenditure

 

[Two Tone]

are our suppliers all getting rich? from what i see farm supply companies/machinery dealers have tight margins too and the minimum wage of their staff wont drop supposing farmers subs are scrapped what is it now near 9/hr?

I find myself reluctant to go to my tractor main dealers more and more.
It annoys me that every time I go, they give the impression that they want to deal with bigger and bigger farmers. The yard is stuffed full of tractors and machinery that is far too big for us.
On top of which, I know the owner spends an absolute fortune on shooting each winter. No wonder he shut down all but 2 of his depots.

Why have they got like this? Because they want your subsidy money.

Further encouraged by the manufacturers building bigger and bigger kit with gizmos that aren’t needed, attempting to fool us all that we cannot be efficient if we don’t have them.

The times I have heard recently that a farmer couldn’t drill because his self steering developed a fault. What the feck is wrong with his arms and the steering wheel?