Farm vets?

Cowgirl

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ayrshire
I take it she has visited RVC? It has a huge campus now and the biggest number of students per year - as a previous staff member I’d say it can be quite daunting for a country girl, unless she’s used to London. Also accommodation is very expensive. Surrey is very new so can’t comment. A lot of good teachers at Liverpool. Bristol didn’t interview last year for the first time for many years and admissions seemed very disorganised - hopefully better this year. It’s buildings are a bit dated now but good area for large animal work.
 

JP1

Member
Livestock Farmer
I take it she has visited RVC? It has a huge campus now and the biggest number of students per year - as a previous staff member I’d say it can be quite daunting for a country girl, unless she’s used to London. Also accommodation is very expensive. Surrey is very new so can’t comment. A lot of good teachers at Liverpool. Bristol didn’t interview last year for the first time for many years and admissions seemed very disorganised - hopefully better this year. It’s buildings are a bit dated now but good area for large animal work.

She's been to them all and been interviewed too.

I wouldn't describe either my Niece or my Brother as "Country" - I know she'd cope fine.

I had a meeting with Professor Webster at Langford once and liked the School.
 

Hfd Cattle

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Hereford
Just to clarify I never started the post to question the abilities of female vets, as others have said I have seen them work every bit as well and better than male vets.

My tread was the lack of vets in general for farm work and I believe that the majority of females qualifying as vets dont want to do farm work, the same possibly applies to men too its just that theres a small fraction of men actually qualifying as vets. My wife’s practice would take any vet thats keen to do large animal work, they just arent there!


So how do we change things to insure we have a supply of vets going forward? I suggested she try’s recruiting from overseas, she asked would I be hppy with a foreign vet coming on farm, of course I said, look at the NHS!
Glad you clarified the question and steering away from male versus female. Bot very capable and welcome in a time of need !
The way I'm led to believe is that foreign vets have to take extra exams to work in this country but are still able to earn good money just doing TB tests and it suits them .Our practice has a ruck of them doing it which frees up the main vets for animal work. There is however, a steady throughput of vets in our practice which is a bit worrying. Quite a few of the very capable vets have moved on and it makes it very difficult to build up a good working relationship with a high throughput .
 
I wanted to be a vet from the age of 8, by my teens a large animal vet. GCSE's were average and I was told to resit for a year in college then reapply for 6th form. I was 17, wanted a job, redid maths and science but my part time job was extended to full time and I wasn't sure about going back to full time study. My boyfriend at the time was far from supportive.

I since married (someone a lot better!) and endes up in dairy/sheep work. My husband offered on many occasions to support me through uni but I don't even have A levels. Having seen what vets have to deal with (the almost impossible cases because the farmera can't manage) makes me happier to be a farmer.

I am interested in the vet tech option though. It seems to only be available via training through a practice at the moment, and as a mum of soon-to-be 3 young children it's not practical right now. However I'm still fascinated by vetting and would love to one day work in a supporting role.
 

GenuineRisk

Member
Location
Somerset
He likes it has made several mates but like everywhere down there its expensive but he says its a good uni and seems quite safe place to live / study

Pip, daughter of my partner in NewPole, is now in her fifth year at Surrey Vet School. She was one of the first intake having been turned down by Bristol for not having the requisite A in one of her exams. The daft thing being she was just 2% short of the A pass mark. Bristol emailed her the evening after her initial interview offering her a place but seem to take pride in being able to say ‘if you don’t get three As, you won’t get in here...’ so it was a no go for her there. Interestingly, they have been pulled up and on we’re inspection recently I have been told, because they had too many drop out and failed exams....

The daughter of a friend of ours, a highly academic and very nice lass, has just competed her first term at Bristol, sailed in without an interview because they no longer do them, purely on her results and CV... I very much doubt she will end up in large animals but she will be an excellent smallies Vet.

Pip, meanwhile, is on track to get a First, she’s an outstanding student and wants to specialise in bovine fertility ultimately. Her CV read like a dream for any Uni looking for students who would work hard and stick the course - from work experience wherever she could get it to working at our local abattoir and getting her slaughterman’s license. She has never missed one lecture in all the time she’s been at Uni. She’s says if she’s paying nine grand a year fees to be there, she isn’t going to miss a thing! The new complex is amazing at Surrey and the faculty have to work extra hard because the Uni has to prove to the RCVS they the students they are producing are up to scratch by the end of this college year.

The fact so many practices are struggling to get suitable grads to fill available vacancies is, I’m afraid, in my view entirely down to the selection process implemented by the universities. While a strong degree of academic ability is necessary, what is more important is the ability to actually understand that it’s a practical profession. It isn’t rocket science unless you’re going into vet research, people. Vets need an analytical mind, a very good memory for diagnosis and prognosis but you don’t need to be an A* student and that is where they are failing those who need the vet profession, especially agriculture. Pip isn’t particularly academic - she has to work much harder than many of her contemporaries who have photographic memories! But the fact is she’s practical, not afraid of getting her hands dirty, quite strong for her size and, most of all, super keen and committed and Surrey were damn lucky to get her - Bristol’s loss! She’s able to talk well to everyone she meets (might even be too chatty ) but she listens well, too and our own vet practice think highly of her and have been excellent at training her whenever they can. Those are key skills, again a selection criteria which I don’t think gets enough priority.

That CV and the candidate’s interview and the ability of the interviewers to gauge and understand the applicant’s committedness to doing the job is where the real skill lies at getting the good raw material into vet schools and my view is this has not been handled very well over the past fifteen years or so.

The other major flaw is that there should be a qualifying period of, say, two years post graduation with a set number of out of hours to be fulfilled before the final RCVS bit is awarded. In the same way an Architect has to complete a project before being admitted to full professional status. That would weed out the wannabes from the candos! All I hear from my vet friends in practice is that they can’t fill vacancies where there’s a set out of hours requirement! That is just ridiculous and again, shows the poor judgements being made at applicant stage for admission.
 

JP1

Member
Livestock Farmer
Pip, daughter of my partner in NewPole, is now in her fifth year at Surrey Vet School. She was one of the first intake having been turned down by Bristol for not having the requisite A in one of her exams. The daft thing being she was just 2% short of the A pass mark. Bristol emailed her the evening after her initial interview offering her a place but seem to take pride in being able to say ‘if you don’t get three As, you won’t get in here...’ so it was a no go for her there. Interestingly, they have been pulled up and on we’re inspection recently I have been told, because they had too many drop out and failed exams....

The daughter of a friend of ours, a highly academic and very nice lass, has just competed her first term at Bristol, sailed in without an interview because they no longer do them, purely on her results and CV... I very much doubt she will end up in large animals but she will be an excellent smallies Vet.

Pip, meanwhile, is on track to get a First, she’s an outstanding student and wants to specialise in bovine fertility ultimately. Her CV read like a dream for any Uni looking for students who would work hard and stick the course - from work experience wherever she could get it to working at our local abattoir and getting her slaughterman’s license. She has never missed one lecture in all the time she’s been at Uni. She’s says if she’s paying nine grand a year fees to be there, she isn’t going to miss a thing! The new complex is amazing at Surrey and the faculty have to work extra hard because the Uni has to prove to the RCVS they the students they are producing are up to scratch by the end of this college year.

The fact so many practices are struggling to get suitable grads to fill available vacancies is, I’m afraid, in my view entirely down to the selection process implemented by the universities. While a strong degree of academic ability is necessary, what is more important is the ability to actually understand that it’s a practical profession. It isn’t rocket science unless you’re going into vet research, people. Vets need an analytical mind, a very good memory for diagnosis and prognosis but you don’t need to be an A* student and that is where they are failing those who need the vet profession, especially agriculture. Pip isn’t particularly academic - she has to work much harder than many of her contemporaries who have photographic memories! But the fact is she’s practical, not afraid of getting her hands dirty, quite strong for her size and, most of all, super keen and committed and Surrey were damn lucky to get her - Bristol’s loss! She’s able to talk well to everyone she meets (might even be too chatty ) but she listens well, too and our own vet practice think highly of her and have been excellent at training her whenever they can. Those are key skills, again a selection criteria which I don’t think gets enough priority.

That CV and the candidate’s interview and the ability of the interviewers to gauge and understand the applicant’s committedness to doing the job is where the real skill lies at getting the good raw material into vet schools and my view is this has not been handled very well over the past fifteen years or so.

The other major flaw is that there should be a qualifying period of, say, two years post graduation with a set number of out of hours to be fulfilled before the final RCVS bit is awarded. In the same way an Architect has to complete a project before being admitted to full professional status. That would weed out the wannabes from the candos! All I hear from my vet friends in practice is that they can’t fill vacancies where there’s a set out of hours requirement! That is just ridiculous and again, shows the poor judgements being made at applicant stage for admission.
What an interesting post

My Niece I'm sure got offers because of how she interviewed and just how earnest she has been in her work experience to date and the references stemming from it; Bristol Zoo, Sparsholt Pig unit, dairy unit, small animal vets x 3
 

Cowgirl

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ayrshire
Pip, daughter of my partner in NewPole, is now in her fifth year at Surrey Vet School. She was one of the first intake having been turned down by Bristol for not having the requisite A in one of her exams. The daft thing being she was just 2% short of the A pass mark. Bristol emailed her the evening after her initial interview offering her a place but seem to take pride in being able to say ‘if you don’t get three As, you won’t get in here...’ so it was a no go for her there. Interestingly, they have been pulled up and on we’re inspection recently I have been told, because they had too many drop out and failed exams....

The daughter of a friend of ours, a highly academic and very nice lass, has just competed her first term at Bristol, sailed in without an interview because they no longer do them, purely on her results and CV... I very much doubt she will end up in large animals but she will be an excellent smallies Vet.

Pip, meanwhile, is on track to get a First, she’s an outstanding student and wants to specialise in bovine fertility ultimately. Her CV read like a dream for any Uni looking for students who would work hard and stick the course - from work experience wherever she could get it to working at our local abattoir and getting her slaughterman’s license. She has never missed one lecture in all the time she’s been at Uni. She’s says if she’s paying nine grand a year fees to be there, she isn’t going to miss a thing! The new complex is amazing at Surrey and the faculty have to work extra hard because the Uni has to prove to the RCVS they the students they are producing are up to scratch by the end of this college year.

The fact so many practices are struggling to get suitable grads to fill available vacancies is, I’m afraid, in my view entirely down to the selection process implemented by the universities. While a strong degree of academic ability is necessary, what is more important is the ability to actually understand that it’s a practical profession. It isn’t rocket science unless you’re going into vet research, people. Vets need an analytical mind, a very good memory for diagnosis and prognosis but you don’t need to be an A* student and that is where they are failing those who need the vet profession, especially agriculture. Pip isn’t particularly academic - she has to work much harder than many of her contemporaries who have photographic memories! But the fact is she’s practical, not afraid of getting her hands dirty, quite strong for her size and, most of all, super keen and committed and Surrey were damn lucky to get her - Bristol’s loss! She’s able to talk well to everyone she meets (might even be too chatty ) but she listens well, too and our own vet practice think highly of her and have been excellent at training her whenever they can. Those are key skills, again a selection criteria which I don’t think gets enough priority.

That CV and the candidate’s interview and the ability of the interviewers to gauge and understand the applicant’s committedness to doing the job is where the real skill lies at getting the good raw material into vet schools and my view is this has not been handled very well over the past fifteen years or so.

The other major flaw is that there should be a qualifying period of, say, two years post graduation with a set number of out of hours to be fulfilled before the final RCVS bit is awarded. In the same way an Architect has to complete a project before being admitted to full professional status. That would weed out the wannabes from the candos! All I hear from my vet friends in practice is that they can’t fill vacancies where there’s a set out of hours requirement! That is just ridiculous and again, shows the poor judgements being made at applicant stage for admission.
Interesting - but too easy to blame the admissions process. Having been on the selection panel for RVC, I know how hard it is - being faced with literally thousands of applications every year, all with similar work experience and achievements (predicted 3As, worked in vet practices, dairies, lambing, riding establishments, kennels, catteries, abattoirs, old peoples’ homes, plus DofE gold awards, grade 8 music, athletics champions etc etc etc etc etc with glowing headmasters’ reports, references from vets etc etc etc) and knowing that every time you pass someone by you are destroying their hopes and dreams... and then having to interview them all, then judging how many you can offer to, knowing that the other vet schools will probably be offering to the same people, and you only have X places...
 

ilyria

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
wales
I went for an interview at RVC, didn't get in sadly but hey ho. Went and did zoology with a view to reapplying but so far haven't gotten around to it. On the farm I worked at previously we used to get quite a few vet students most of which used to say that they weren't planning on doing farm because of various excuses including : it was too dirty, that's not where the money is, its dying out, too physical, too smelly (this was a lass who turned up to do lambing with false nails like rakes).
I might get around to reapplying one day, if finances allow
 

GenuineRisk

Member
Location
Somerset
Interesting - but too easy to blame the admissions process. Having been on the selection panel for RVC, I know how hard it is - being faced with literally thousands of applications every year, all with similar work experience and achievements (predicted 3As, worked in vet practices, dairies, lambing, riding establishments, kennels, catteries, abattoirs, old peoples’ homes, plus DofE gold awards, grade 8 music, athletics champions etc etc etc etc etc with glowing headmasters’ reports, references from vets etc etc etc) and knowing that every time you pass someone by you are destroying their hopes and dreams... and then having to interview them all, then judging how many you can offer to, knowing that the other vet schools will probably be offering to the same people, and you only have X places...

I can quite understand it’s a difficult process but why use a selection technique that is based on intellectual criteria only ?

If you want to ensure you select students who will stick a course and be able to do out of hours and get stuck in, then how difficult is it to set a practical test up as an interview selection criteria?

As in... OK so you want to be a vet student. Here’s an AI glove, some lube. there’s a back end of a live cow in a crush, do a rectal (could use cull cows for this). Or something equally dirty and daunting. We all know CVs can be... well ‘creative’ at best so get them to prove they have the committment.
 

Farmer Fin

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Aberdeenshire
I can quite understand it’s a difficult process but why use a selection technique that is based on intellectual criteria only ?

If you want to ensure you select students who will stick a course and be able to do out of hours and get stuck in, then how difficult is it to set a practical test up as an interview selection criteria?

As in... OK so you want to be a vet student. Here’s an AI glove, some lube. there’s a back end of a live cow in a crush, do a rectal (could use cull cows for this). Or something equally dirty and daunting. We all know CVs can be... well ‘creative’ at best so get them to prove they have the committment.

They don’t just select on intellect (or more correctly the ability to cram lots of info and be good at exams) any more. They do profile students and interview to try and select, which they have always done. The problem with practical skills at an interview is kids haven’t had the opportunity to learn these techniques and where do you stop?

The unis are moving away from big exams to grade students through the course. Big exams selects intelligent people who are good at exams and normally have an excellent short term memory. What is doesn’t do is select intelligent people / problem solvers who aren’t so good under pressure of an exam. I know plenty of vets who scraped through as were bad at exams but are excellent vets. With time this will filter down to the selection process, however it may ask more question about school education and assessment.
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
I often wonder where a fellow vet student of mine is now. He borrowed money off me and I never got it back. (Now that I don't forget!:(). After him swearing that he'd paid me back, I kept a close watch.

One day I confronted him. "You really don't like animals, do you?". "No", he replied. "Then what on earth made you want to be a vet?". "Oh, I won't be having anything to do with animals. I will be going into the government administration side and have a desk job, I'll get a good salary and retire early". He's out there somewhere!

Going straight from school into uni was definitely a mistake for me. The second one, actually, because I am most relieved I didn't become a vet! And it was definitely a mistake going from a strict boarding school where a flogging was routine straight into the flesh pots of London where the RVC was situated at that time. I simply could not get my head around biochemistry and gave up. Back them, it was pretty rough and I still wince at the thought of that poor arthritic old horse being used to demonstrate various casting techniques with ropes and being collapsed onto a concrete floor. Before vet college, I'd sit in during surgery at my local cat and dog vet, regularly pass out if there was too much blood, fumble for the door, then return when I'd recovered! And I definitely could not deal with the human clients! Things might have been different if I'd spent a couple of years on an Australian sheep farm or simply followed a vet around on farm visits, but I didn't do that either and that's a relief or I might now be a very miserable and unhappy vet (which I am not!).
 

Cowgirl

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ayrshire
I can quite understand it’s a difficult process but why use a selection technique that is based on intellectual criteria only ?

If you want to ensure you select students who will stick a course and be able to do out of hours and get stuck in, then how difficult is it to set a practical test up as an interview selection criteria?

As in... OK so you want to be a vet student. Here’s an AI glove, some lube. there’s a back end of a live cow in a crush, do a rectal (could use cull cows for this). Or something equally dirty and daunting. We all know CVs can be... well ‘creative’ at best so get them to prove they have the committment.
Each university has different admissions processes, several involving multiple mini interviews. It would be logistically impossible, and probably illegal on welfare grounds, to organise interviews for 400 people using live animals, although my daughter did have to do a “”consultation” with actors and a live dog at Nottingham. They do often use dead tissue nowadays though. The admissions team comprises a small number of management personnel plus some lecturers, who are not employed specifically to do this - they have to make time for it in addition to their normal workload. There is also some personality profiling and a lot of problem solving, as said above.
The vast majority of British students are school leavers but some universities will consider reapplicants, although this adds to the numbers. The N Americans are often in their twenties having done another degree first. I am not sure of the RVC’s policy now but they used to be the only college that would consider A level resitters, and they used to take the occasional mature student eg I remember we had a vet nurse and a shepherd in his 40s. However there is a perception that students who have had a year out may not do so well. Some of the personal statements might be slightly creative but that will be spotted at interviews as the personal statement is the main basis for discussion. It’s a tough world and many are disappointed. The problem is that no one really knows when they are 18 how they will feel when they 40!
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
Each university has different admissions processes, several involving multiple mini interviews. It would be logistically impossible, and probably illegal on welfare grounds, to organise interviews for 400 people using live animals, although my daughter did have to do a “”consultation” with actors and a live dog at Nottingham. They do often use dead tissue nowadays though. The admissions team comprises a small number of management personnel plus some lecturers, who are not employed specifically to do this - they have to make time for it in addition to their normal workload. There is also some personality profiling and a lot of problem solving, as said above.
The vast majority of British students are school leavers but some universities will consider reapplicants, although this adds to the numbers. The N Americans are often in their twenties having done another degree first. I am not sure of the RVC’s policy now but they used to be the only college that would consider A level resitters, and they used to take the occasional mature student eg I remember we had a vet nurse and a shepherd in his 40s. However there is a perception that students who have had a year out may not do so well. Some of the personal statements might be slightly creative but that will be spotted at interviews as the personal statement is the main basis for discussion. It’s a tough world and many are disappointed. The problem is that no one really knows when they are 18 how they will feel when they 40!

Probably relevant to this post and mine, above, but after being chucked out of vet college, I explored life abit, then went back to uni in my late twenties, finally qualifying as a surveyor. I'm glad I did as it has been a most useful experience and I would have hated being a vet. Maybe those who have a gap year or two and don't settle, shouldn't be vets anyway? Uni is meant to teach you to think and I do believe that is the important part.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
we must be lucky, our vets have 3 young male vets, they also have some very good lady vets, so they must be doing some things right, as they reckon 90% of training vets are female, and 90% of the male vets go into small animals !
as to salaries, small animals offer a 'clean' working environment ,with jo public able to spend more. compared to us miserable old/young farmers working god knows how many hours. usually in not so clean environment, and then having to deal with some unco-oprative animals that are several times bigger than themselves, and we as farmers are being squeezed financially. but give credit where it's due, we are lucky to have the vets ,male or female, in our practice and they are good at what they do
 

Dave79

Member
Location
N Antrim
Surely it has to be admissions at the universities that make the change to help this? They must know what’s happening, so should maybe give a certain weight to an application which is more likely to result in a large animal vet. They must know the proportions of large to small that is needed, and try to fulfil this with their admissions. Maybe they know there is no problem, but all the anecdotal stories seem to point to the fact that there is, and only they can fix it. Straight A’s are great, but I personally know of a couple of very good large animal vets that didn’t make that grade, and I’m sure there’s plenty that are only a grade or two shy that the industry misses out on, with the issue being that those who take their places never intend to set foot on a farm!
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,293
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top