glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
Landlords are screwing nz to death, same as in the uk, they are now the major cause of poverty.
The uk is fighting back though, with scotland in the lead as usual going for rent controls
Farmer Roy's Random Thoughts - I never said it was easy.
- Thread starter Farmer Roy
- Start date
The uk is fighting back though, with scotland in the lead as usual going for rent controls
High mortgages and rents dont help but people need a roof over their heads. Id totally agree about the fuel though everyone seems to drive more and more nowadays too and every househild has more than one car too.
I dont think you will need a tin hat on this threadIf I can be controversial- it is farm subsidies & this constant mantra of " cheap food " that has created this situation. If food was more expensive & rated on quality over quantity / price, then the consumers would value it more. The UK system has reduced the concept of "food" to a low priced basic commodity, not as a "luxury" or a "treat" or discretionary spending, such as you describe above.
Food may be more expensive in this country ( may ? Poms like to say it is & use it as a criticism, but on observation I'd say we still have a better standard of living ), but at least with sooo many good cafes, coffee shops, bistros, restaurants, boutique & gourmet food outlets & suppliers, I think we may value & pay for these "indulgences" over & above just cheap energy, carbohydrates & protein
The increased demand for "organic" or "ethical" products, the growth in individual branding, or increased information about production methods to consumers all point to this.
If you want people to value food, make it expensive & create an air of aspiration, luxury, indulgence, branding around it.
How much does a glass of water from your kitchen tap cost ?
How much does a plastic bottle of water from a supermarket or petrol station cost ?
How much does water that is branded Evian or Pellegrino cost ?
It's still all water, performs the same function in our bodies, but very different in our minds & perception
A thirsty man in the desert, how much will he pay for water, will he take it for granted ?
A large part of the problem I see is UK agricultural policy, UK agriculture in general & UK farmers for allowing this all to happen.
Tin hat on now
Aussie food advertising
you are right anyway. The whole point of subsidies are to try and guarantee cheap food for people and farmers have swallowed the bait hook line and sinker. Some have done very well off it but we hae set ourselves up for a hard ride now when/if subs do go. Farmers evertwere on this forum are saying lambs need to be £100 or a fat steer needs to he £2000 or whatever. They dont see that people wont pay it if they cant afford it. This argument comes up on the beef and lamb price tracker every so often and the ones saying it needs to be mkre expensive just cant see that people will stop buying i started a thread about lamb being priced out of the average persons budget and was basically told to shut up by the same people who moan for higher prices on the price tracker 
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
Farmers here, while enjoying high prices, do worry about the sustainability of very high prices for beef & lamb, knowing the consumer has a limit . . .
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
If I can be controversial
Food may be more expensive in this country ( may ? Poms like to say it is & use it as a criticism, but on observation I'd say we still have a better standard of living ), but at least with sooo many good cafes, coffee shops, bistros, restaurants, boutique & gourmet food outlets & suppliers, I think we may value & pay for these "indulgences" over & above just cheap energy, carbohydrates & protein
The increased demand for "organic" or "ethical" products, the growth in individual branding, or increased information about production methods to consumers all point to this.
If you want people to value food, make it expensive & create an air of aspiration, luxury, indulgence, branding around it.
How much does a glass of water from your kitchen tap cost ?
How much does a plastic bottle of water from a supermarket or petrol station cost ?
How much does water that is branded Evian or Pellegrino cost ?
It's still all water, performs the same function in our bodies, but very different in our minds & perception
A thirsty man in the desert, how much will he pay for water, will he take it for granted ?
A large part of the problem I see is UK agricultural policy, UK agriculture in general & UK farmers for allowing this all to happen.
Tin hat on now
Aussie food advertising
Good posts. Food is far too cheap to the consumer who then treats it like the "commodity" it has been made into
You can actually buy some very good food in the UK these days but it is usually twice the average price or more. Just look at any upmarket restaurant on a weekend and see if high prices have put people off
Many of the masses fuelling themselves in McDonalds / Burger King / Pizza Hut / KFC etc claim to be poor but wear designer gear, have the latest iPhone, have a Sky / Netflix subscription, smoke and/or drink heavily. It's a lifestyle choice.
Housing costs in the UK are stupid though, mainly due to policy restricting availability hence creating scarcity. In London £1500+ per month is common for a 1 bed flat. In parts of Liverpool and other areas you can buy a 2 bed house outright for £20k.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
They don't much like it when you point out that their costs are WAY too highFarmers evertwere on this forum are saying lambs need to be £100 or a fat steer needs to he £2000 or whatever. i started a thread about lamb being priced out of the average persons budget and was basically told to shut up by the same people who moan for higher prices on the price tracker
I had my neighbours round for a long chat on Thursday over a cuppa. They run around 3000 acres arable (tenants and whole farm contract for the next-door estate) and have just added sheep back into the mix. They are worrying about agrochemical resistance, especially Blackgrass, and want to use grass breaks to help with control. They wanted to check my thoughts on where UK Ag is going and how to adapt (as if I know the answers
). We discussed costs of production and Dan admitted that his variable costs are now 3 times what they were in the 1980's and his fixed costs double. He and Angus have lots to think about now.At least they are thinking about it.
A few here understand. More so now than a few months ago or maybe they always understood but are more vocal about it. It always frustrates me that the same ones are always saying that the prices need to be higher than what people can afford it to be. There will be no people left to buy our lambs if everyone stops buying it. Good luck getting £100 for a lamb then.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
$100 a lamb is making good money here . . .
£100 is exeptional. Our average is.more like £70 for an above average lamb. Some hill lamvs would be down to £40 or less. Weve had a good run of pricd now some selling lambs up to £170 or more and they think its going to last forever after a couple of months. Its not that long ago £60 was considered a hell of a good price for a lamb they all have very short memories.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
Im friends of facebook with an australian sheep farmer. Hes not te typical 1000s of acre and thousands of sheep rancher type you would expect. He has a few hundred acres (or less i think) and a few hundred sheep in one of the better parts with fairly reliable rainfall and some irrigation. He has his own flock of ewes and deals in store lamvs a bit. He told me he was making a fortune on some lambs he had just sold and had just broken the record at his local auction for highest price ever. I cant remember how many dollars it was butnit converted to £73. He said he was bouncing up and down with exitement over it! I know farmers that have tsken their lambs home and refused to sell for £70odd.£57 .
Just out of interest there is a couple of american sheep farmers in the same fb group as us and they were moaning like hell when their prices were worth £150. They wanted £200 or more.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I remember Dad and his brother buying a motorbike each when they first sold all their lambs over $80
you could even pay shearers and just pen up as a reward with that crazy money
Now they hit $160 and it takes a "miner" to match the variable costs
just put more sh!t on the list of "don't do"
and have a little bit of a learning problem when it comes to what is needed
you could even pay shearers and just pen up as a reward with that crazy money
Now they hit $160 and it takes a "miner" to match the variable costs
just put more sh!t on the list of "don't do"
and have a little bit of a learning problem when it comes to what is needed
Lambs were £1 / kilo here for years and years adter beung a lot more previously but i cant remember when dad said that was, early 80s maybe. In 2008 they jumped to £1.50/ kilo and everyine went nuts and spent loads of money. The same will happen now if lambs stay at £100 for any length of time. They are in for a hell of a shock if TimW is right and lambs need to he produced for less than £50.
In the UK the question is how much profit can you make without your subsidy cheque?
A rather simpler question in NZ as your profit is your profit.
In our situation we are gradually seeing a larger part of our profit come from sales and reducing subsidy payment.
This is how I like to see things go.
Could this farm live without subsidies,yes,but the thing is do I want to work for very little.
Stable market prices are very important.
A rather simpler question in NZ as your profit is your profit.
In our situation we are gradually seeing a larger part of our profit come from sales and reducing subsidy payment.
This is how I like to see things go.
Could this farm live without subsidies,yes,but the thing is do I want to work for very little.
Stable market prices are very important.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Stable market prices are better for both primary producer and final consumer but then the commodity brokers couldn't make obscene profit from guessing the markets
Posted this somewere else but thought it might be of interest here too
Propino competing with old permanant pasture in my pasture cropping experiment View attachment 675492
will see how it goes but i dont have high hopes for it tbh
Propino competing with old permanant pasture in my pasture cropping experiment View attachment 675492
will see how it goes but i dont have high hopes for it tbh
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Scale is very important to many systems in many instances in many countries unfortunately for those just "on a rung" if the sheep etc had a correction in many of those countries
My subsidy is that I don't work on a farm, and you will know me well enough to know that is the truth of it - it isn't even dog and stick, more reels and standards; but I do fear for the majority if it takes high prices to pay their bills - (glad you are going the right way about it over there all the same... I am watching what a few of you are doing and you would make a good job of it anywhere..)
If I can be real brave? it almost appreared the UK sheep scene had a moment to stop and catch its breath but it seems lively again now
However the realist always begs caution in terms of financial planning over a term in this BS political age where the jerks suddenly get in and change stuff, irrigation here is pretty vital to our drier bits of the country farming and our new Govt wanted to bin that
Thankfully a bit of internet abuse and robust response soon got those words back down her silly hatch
and is doing well as a PM by simply not changing the bigger picture... it is probably because without farming there would be no rail network, widespread unemployment, and much less revenue to fund all their seemingly odd projects of "socialist growth" which is a flying brick of an idea"We can't live on values" was the phrase of our election debate
although the nrw gov't think it was "let's do this" (and unfortunately didn't lose by quite a big enough margin)Things that seem to good to be true seldom pan out far from that estimation
But you know me - love a challenge on the land.
Getting 31 sheep to more than pay their way was a triumph over logic in this country
and the one I had to lamb tasted like $150ou te le malamalama pe o le a le faafitauli!
(I don't see the problem!)
However fulltime farming is an interesting consideration, as you said @Yale a decent living from farming is pretty standard here but more money doesn't come from more but from less as you know. Usually less farming and more business wins the money stakes - I think unstable prices are pretty crucial to be honest, a good fright scares people into reality where as ABS lets you forget to learn to brake and still live
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Scale is very important to many systems in many instances in many countries unfortunately for those just "on a rung" if the sheep etc had a correction in many of those countries
My subsidy is that I don't work on a farm, and you will know me well enough to know that is the truth of it - it isn't even dog and stick, more reels and standards; but I do fear for the majority if it takes high prices to pay their bills - (glad you are going the right way about it over there all the same... I am watching what a few of you are doing and you would make a good job of it anywhere..)
If I can be real brave? it almost appreared the UK sheep scene had a moment to stop and catch its breath but it seems lively again now
However the realist always begs caution in terms of financial planning over a term in this BS political age where the jerks suddenly get in and change stuff, irrigation here is pretty vital to our drier bits of the country farming and our new Govt wanted to bin that
Thankfully a bit of internet abuse and robust response soon got those words back down her silly hatch
"We can't live on values" was the phrase of our election debate
Things that seem to good to be true seldom pan out far from that estimation
But you know me - love a challenge on the land.
Getting 31 sheep to more than pay their way was a triumph over logic in this country
ou te le malamalama pe o le a le faafitauli!
(I don't see the problem!)
However fulltime farming is an interesting consideration, as you said @Yale a decent living from farming is pretty standard here but more money doesn't come from more but from less as you know. Usually less farming and more business wins the money stakes - I think unstable prices are pretty crucial to be honest, a good fright scares people into reality where as ABS lets you forget to learn to brake and still live
Funny enough the last paragraph reminds me of a saying collected on here many years ago.
‘An hours business is worth a days work.’
This is so true and something I have to remind myself of.
I certainly need to be more business like and curtail the work.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
I've often heard it said that in cattle more money is earnt by buying and selling right than by managing/growing/feeding right.Scale is very important to many systems in many instances in many countries unfortunately for those just "on a rung" if the sheep etc had a correction in many of those countries
My subsidy is that I don't work on a farm, and you will know me well enough to know that is the truth of it - it isn't even dog and stick, more reels and standards; but I do fear for the majority if it takes high prices to pay their bills - (glad you are going the right way about it over there all the same... I am watching what a few of you are doing and you would make a good job of it anywhere..)
If I can be real brave? it almost appreared the UK sheep scene had a moment to stop and catch its breath but it seems lively again now
However the realist always begs caution in terms of financial planning over a term in this BS political age where the jerks suddenly get in and change stuff, irrigation here is pretty vital to our drier bits of the country farming and our new Govt wanted to bin that
Thankfully a bit of internet abuse and robust response soon got those words back down her silly hatch
"We can't live on values" was the phrase of our election debate
Things that seem to good to be true seldom pan out far from that estimation
But you know me - love a challenge on the land.
Getting 31 sheep to more than pay their way was a triumph over logic in this country
ou te le malamalama pe o le a le faafitauli!
(I don't see the problem!)
However fulltime farming is an interesting consideration, as you said @Yale a decent living from farming is pretty standard here but more money doesn't come from more but from less as you know. Usually less farming and more business wins the money stakes - I think unstable prices are pretty crucial to be honest, a good fright scares people into reality where as ABS lets you forget to learn to brake and still live
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya