Farmer Roy's Random Thoughts - I never said it was easy.

Ukjay

Member
Location
Wales!
If people want to make a difference, grow a garden, ride a bike or walk to work, approach a local farmer or grower and ask if you can buy their produce..

Hi Pete,

This is where my above question was trying to get into.

If the new "Save the Planet - Eat only Veg and Not Meat" option is believed, can one honestly grow a fully balanced garden without having to then rely on say synthetics to help add back what is given via animals by products?

Because to follow their route, you would need to remove all the edible animals from the face of the earth imho, because I know if I had a choice, i'd be shooting anything that was running on my land to get what I consider a real diet - so I would ponder others would do the same...

So could it really be done economically to such a scale as these people suggest...
 
Saw this on FB. One is American butter and the other is from New Zealand. Seem to remember some upset on here about it @FonterraFarmer :whistle:
View attachment 757900
Do you really want me to let loose with regard to "white sh!t"?:mad::rolleyes:
If your butter is not up to specification, then get the f**k out of the way and let someone who knows what they are doing , do it(y).
Funny thing is I was thinking aboot this during milking this morning :eek:
Ffs to quote Wayne, "figure it out":sneaky::LOL:









Happy now?:D
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Do you really want me to let loose with regard to "white sh!t"?:mad::rolleyes:
If your butter is not up to specification, then get the f**k out of the way and let someone who knows what they are doing , do it(y).
Funny thing is I was thinking aboot this during milking this morning :eek:
Ffs to quote Wayne, "figure it out":sneaky::LOL:









Happy now?:D
I saw it and thought of you straight away :D the white butter does look a little odd next to the yellow one but it's only what I'm used to. I'm sure the American one tastes fine though. Would the colour be different because of what the cows have eaten?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hi Pete,

This is where my above question was trying to get into.

If the new "Save the Planet - Eat only Veg and Not Meat" option is believed, can one honestly grow a fully balanced garden without having to then rely on say synthetics to help add back what is given via animals by products?

Because to follow their route, you would need to remove all the edible animals from the face of the earth imho, because I know if I had a choice, i'd be shooting anything that was running on my land to get what I consider a real diet - so I would ponder others would do the same...

So could it really be done economically to such a scale as these people suggest...
Attitude is everything.

Honestly, I do so many of the things that "can't be done" already, that I don't really give much thought to what all these struggling experts think, or do, or eat!

We've got a garden about 120m2, that almost feeds a family of 4 - when I say almost, we barter alot of our surpluses to other gardeners in the village to fill in some of the gaps... but in saying that I could do a lot better at home if I needed to, just a bit lazy and distracted!

I'd be lucky if I put ten hours into it per year.

However it probably isn't "sustainable" because we probably discard a lot of stuff that could go in the compost drums, purely out of laziness/inattention/convenience.

So I think it could easily be done in many areas, I'll get a tunnelhouse going one day, but most of the poorer peoples of the world are already self-sufficient, they have to be to survive.

The problem with all these "facts" is that they are so extreme, ie they'll use the worst case industrial farms to base all livestock farms on, because it suits them to. It's really difficult to uncover the real truth.
 

Ukjay

Member
Location
Wales!
Attitude is everything.

Honestly, I do so many of the things that "can't be done" already, that I don't really give much thought to what all these struggling experts think, or do, or eat!

We've got a garden about 120m2, that almost feeds a family of 4 - when I say almost, we barter alot of our surpluses to other gardeners in the village to fill in some of the gaps... but in saying that I could do a lot better at home if I needed to, just a bit lazy and distracted!

I'd be lucky if I put ten hours into it per year.

However it probably isn't "sustainable" because we probably discard a lot of stuff that could go in the compost drums, purely out of laziness/inattention/convenience.

So I think it could easily be done in many areas, I'll get a tunnelhouse going one day, but most of the poorer peoples of the world are already self-sufficient, they have to be to survive.

The problem with all these "facts" is that they are so extreme, ie they'll use the worst case industrial farms to base all livestock farms on, because it suits them to. It's really difficult to uncover the real truth.

So extrapolating the above further, how are you fertilising the soil - what are you using to add the required nutrients into the veg plot, as it cannot surely continue to take with nothing returned?


It's really difficult to uncover the real truth.

Exactly, and you are in this business with a lot of nsider information to work from.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
So extrapolating the above further, how are you fertilising the soil - what are you using to add the required nutrients into the veg plot, as it cannot surely continue to take with nothing returned?




Exactly, and you are in this business with a lot of nsider information to work from.
Just compost, really. Everything we think to put in, goes in.
What people forget in their equation is that an awful lot of weeds grow in a graden, more than likely enough to replace the "lost nutrients" that we flush down the kazi.

Most plant comes from the air: the sun, carbon dioxide, rainwater.. if you get to the point your soils are healthy, then you aren't going to arrive at a barren state.
However, most of the industrialists can't get to this stage, because their systems are rubbish, and their soils have had the resilience raped out of them already.

Which makes "country of origin" labelling interesting, if you consider the energy has to be imported on a boat!! :ROFLMAO:
Isn't it efficient though :cry:
 

Ukjay

Member
Location
Wales!
Just compost, really. Everything we think to put in, goes in.
What people forget in their equation is that an awful lot of weeds grow in a graden, more than likely enough to replace the "lost nutrients" that we flush down the kazi.

Most plant comes from the air: the sun, carbon dioxide, rainwater.. if you get to the point your soils are healthy, then you aren't going to arrive at a barren state.

This is the kind of problem though I fear, as a lot of gardens around my area at least couldn't sustain growing food without major changes, as most of their garden is basically building rubble discarded by the unscrupulous builders, with turf layed on the top.. I doubt there would be enough nutrients in the rubble to get to the point of self sufficiency, plus then the NIMBIES complaining about rats and snakes in compost heaps :banghead:

However, most of the industrialists can't get to this stage, because their systems are rubbish, and their soils have had the resilience raped out of them already.

So did you have to build the soil biota prior to this current state by using more than just compost (which I assume is just vegatable / plant based in absence of the breakdown), or were you able to do this from day one?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
This is the kind of problem though I fear, as a lot of gardens around my area at least couldn't sustain growing food without major changes, as most of their garden is basically building rubble discarded by the unscrupulous builders, with turf layed on the top.. I doubt there would be enough nutrients in the rubble to get to the point of self sufficiency, plus then the NIMBIES complaining about rats and snakes in compost heaps :banghead:



So did you have to build the soil biota prior to this current state by using more than just compost (which I assume is just vegatable / plant based in absence of the breakdown), or were you able to do this from day one?
As far as I know, it's probably been in the same spot for 40 years or so? The old house used it, and this place is almost 30 years old now.
I did cheat a little with the tractor, removed the topsoil, laid out about 6 cubic metres of kelp and put the topsoil on top, then layered compost on top of that (y)
Hopefully it should do us for my lifetime, all the weeds, and veg waste is either just laid directly on the soil or composted.
I do put eggshells and bones and that sort of household stuff in, as I never thought of this conversation happening :ROFLMAO: however in the grand scheme of things, the atmosphere grows plants, and provided you aren't growing in a sterile medium, the soil biology. Hence hydroponics and conventional agriculture (with lesser biological function) need the inputs.

Nobody fertilises the rainforests, the prairies, the pampas, and yet they all support abundant and diverse life (y)
The main thing that is crippling the human species is - a lack of diversity, the reaction to this is the division of society to such an extreme level as we see demonstrated ^^^^

I guess all the sheeple want, is to not feel like "another brick in the wall" :rolleyes:

If they were starving, then they wouldn't be activists ;) they would be hungry :whistle:
 

texas pete

Member
Location
East Mids
The problem with all these "facts" is that they are so extreme, ie they'll use the worst case industrial farms to base all livestock farms on, because it suits them to. It's really difficult to uncover the real truth.

Most of the ideology is based around extremes. The subject is more akin to religion, I often wonder if the rise in such extremism is inversely related to the decline in "traditional" religion, ie Christianity and its "values". People, or some people anyway, need a prop, an identity to feel secure and be part of.....
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Most of the ideology is based around extremes. The subject is more akin to religion, I often wonder if the rise in such extremism is inversely related to the decline in "traditional" religion, ie Christianity and its "values". People, or some people anyway, need a prop, an identity to feel secure and be part of.....
As a species, last thing we need to mimic right now is a grenade!! :facepalm: that'll smart, when the drugs wear off....
 

onesiedale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Derbyshire
Feck, are you sure the bottom one isn't soap?
"Good" cheap food my arse!!

You cannot have a like for that
You're near enough right. The soapy one is probably made from cows milk on a diet with a .high inclusion of vegetable fats and oils. C16 and PKO type feeds.
1st place it shows up in the milk is the cream, hence you see it even more concentrated in the butter.
 

CornishTone

Member
BASIS
Location
Cornwall
Most of the ideology is based around extremes. The subject is more akin to religion, I often wonder if the rise in such extremism is inversely related to the decline in "traditional" religion, ie Christianity and its "values". People, or some people anyway, need a prop, an identity to feel secure and be part of.....

It’s an interesting notion. As secularism increases, people simply swap one form of extremism for another.

Or are there always going to be extremists in any given demographic. Be it vegans, anti vaxers, hard left, hard right. We were only talking the other day about some within the Regenerative Ag movement being zealots. There are nutters round every corner and they all need a band wagon to ride around on!
 

CornishTone

Member
BASIS
Location
Cornwall
Random tangent!

The Adelaide Hills were showing off tonight...
IMG_8464.JPG
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,292
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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