Farmers do not take in to account Natives live cheaper than Continentals.

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Long and short of it though:

Fertiliser and feed costs are making ANY BREED of suckler financially unviable, whatever your system

I need over £3/kg store price to cover fertiliser. Haven't done the sums for fuel and feed.

Why keep cows to make a loss?
I don't have cattle. But having done some sums the only way I can get them to add up is dairy X cows each rearing 2 calves (1 bought in). Or using cattle to groom pasture for sheep.
 
Melton Mowbray prices were poor for natives. Why? Natives do live cheaper and will even outwinter rather than spending on shed room and feed. They eat grass and grass products rather than expensive (now very expensive) grain rations. How do we get this across to the commercial suckler man?
WB
If I could outwinter cows I would have a native breed. However like many others I can't so are stuck with higher costs and therefore need to go for higher output.

Having said that I am reducing cattle numbers to a handful to clear up silage etc behind sheep. I think from a farming point of view it's not right but economically it is.
 

Werzle

Member
Location
Midlands
Natives are smaller and gross far less as stores and in the fat, until the price of beef is paid on eating quality the extreme natives will always be the hobby farmers choice of breed and not the majority commercial breed. Now beef is short the bigger breeds will command an even bigger premium over the small cheap to keep natives
 

Werzle

Member
Location
Midlands
Long and short of it though:

Fertiliser and feed costs are making ANY BREED of suckler financially unviable, whatever your system

I need over £3/kg store price to cover fertiliser. Haven't done the sums for fuel and feed.

Why keep cows to make a loss?
If your doing the job right then your young stores should be making £3+ p/kg
 
Sucklers work here because we have a plentiful supply of cheap land and extra subsidys for sucklers. A typical unit would be 50 to 60 cows on 80 hectares upwards nothing like the stocking rates found in the UK. Plenty of locals around here will apply little or no fert this year and the climate helps making hay a cheap option.

I have a fair area already in crops and most of my land could be ploughed up and would be if it were not for headage payments and extra area payments on grassland.
 

DrDunc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Dunsyre
If your doing the job right then your young stores should be making £3+ p/kg
Really?

Surely if you're getting 20 to 30p/kg more than the average in a sale full of continental crosses, my "wee" grass fed natives will leave more profit?

Or how about a bit more detail before your answer?

Punt feeding into lim, blue or charlie crosses for an autumn and a winter, then get your £3/kg and smile with £1350.......

......Or feed a good native breed home grown high ME and protein grass to 450kg at 11 month old, and gross £1100?

Are you really suggesting £250 more a head would leave more profit after I'd paid the feed bill? And that's not even thinking about the extra feed needed for non native breed mothers!




The issue is not how much per kg they make, it's how much MORE per kg that's NEEDED to cover the increased fert, feed and fuel input costs

Without an increase, regardless of whether you're currently making £3/kg, or £2.50/kg for grass fed natives, NOBODY MAKES A PROFIT from store cattle out of sucklers
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Really?

Surely if you're getting 20 to 30p/kg more than the average in a sale full of continental crosses, my "wee" grass fed natives will leave more profit?

Or how about a bit more detail before your answer?

Punt feeding into lim, blue or charlie crosses for an autumn and a winter, then get your £3/kg and smile with £1350.......

......Or feed a good native breed home grown high ME and protein grass to 450kg at 11 month old, and gross £1100?

Are you really suggesting £250 more a head would leave more profit after I'd paid the feed bill? And that's not even thinking about the extra feed needed for non native breed mothers!




The issue is not how much per kg they make, it's how much MORE per kg that's NEEDED to cover the increased fert, feed and fuel input costs

Without an increase, regardless of whether you're currently making £3/kg, or £2.50/kg for grass fed natives, NOBODY MAKES A PROFIT from store cattle out of sucklers
what if they use no or very little fert, feed or fuel ? dog and stick
 

DrDunc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Dunsyre
what if they use no or very little fert, feed or fuel ? dog and stick
Aye, ok, if you've the acres to be extensive, or are already down the organic road, input cost inflation won't hit so hard

There's still the contractors bill for the winter forage, the plastics bill to conserve it, and you've still to find enough increased profit to afford the machine to feed them
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Aye, ok, if you've the acres to be extensive, or are already down the organic road, input cost inflation won't hit so hard

There's still the contractors bill for the winter forage, the plastics bill to conserve it, and you've still to find enough increased profit to afford the machine to feed them
Little old baler and some manpower paid for with bread, cheese and cider :)
 

Macsky

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Highland
Easier calving and keep the heifer calves out the luing for hill grazing cows

Simental calves too big for heifers, longer gestations, and calves ideally need concentrates to push them once speaned. Shorthorn yearlings are actually heavier fed on grass / haylage / mother's milk than simental with 2lbs of cake one they're off mothers

Angus bulls seem to have lost their easy calving along the way of "improved" ebv weight gains, and anyway, why produce Angus calves that are worth £1200 when 22 month old, when I can sell Shorthorn sired offspring at 12 months old for £1100???
I wouldn’t count on the Luing calves being all that small, Ive put simx and limx cows to a cracking lim bull and a smaller Luing bull and the Luing calves are as big, if not bigger born.
 

Optimus

Member
Easier calving and keep the heifer calves out the luing for hill grazing cows

Simental calves too big for heifers, longer gestations, and calves ideally need concentrates to push them once speaned. Shorthorn yearlings are actually heavier fed on grass / haylage / mother's milk than simental with 2lbs of cake one they're off mothers

Angus bulls seem to have lost their easy calving along the way of "improved" ebv weight gains, and anyway, why produce Angus calves that are worth £1200 when 22 month old, when I can sell Shorthorn sired offspring at 12 months old for £1100???
No worries just wondered.£1200 for 22 month old angus doesn't sound too good though.
 

Optimus

Member
Aye, ok, if you've the acres to be extensive, or are already down the organic road, input cost inflation won't hit so hard

There's still the contractors bill for the winter forage, the plastics bill to conserve it, and you've still to find enough increased profit to afford the machine to feed them
Trying to use as little machinery as possible is probably key to making money out of sucklers.
 

Bullring

Member
Location
Cornwall
I keep natives and the south devon will pay well as stores, I usually sell mine at 18months old weighing anywhere between 600-700kgs and get a good return and the cows will make good money as culls, only yesterday I sent some cull cows off varying between 450-550 deadweight. They produce good growing calves off grass. Might not be everybody’s cup of tea but you need a cow that suits your system.
 

S J H

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
Trying to use as little machinery as possible is probably key to making money out of sucklers.
I think the key to that is more use of hay rather than silage.

I’ve only got a few, but mine are on good hay til they calve. I can load quadrant bales in front of the feed barrier, so only really need to use a machine every 3 days when scraping and bedding up.

I know it varies over the country but some pre calving diets seem very complicated for a suckler.
 
I think the key to that is more use of hay rather than silage.

I’ve only got a few, but mine are on good hay til they calve. I can load quadrant bales in front of the feed barrier, so only really need to use a machine every 3 days when scraping and bedding up.

I know it varies over the country but some pre calving diets seem very complicated for a suckler.

I am in my 30th year of keeping sucklers. 8 in the UK 22 in France. For 28 years we only made hay. We made silage for the first time ever in 2020 but it was only because we got a subsidy to grow forage protein and with the best will in the world trying to make hay of pure stands of lucerne or clover is hard. Sucklers should be all about spending as little as possible, its a hell of a lot easier to reduce cost per cow than increase output per cow.
 

Dave6170

Member
Easier calving and keep the heifer calves out the luing for hill grazing cows

Simental calves too big for heifers, longer gestations, and calves ideally need concentrates to push them once speaned. Shorthorn yearlings are actually heavier fed on grass / haylage / mother's milk than simental with 2lbs of cake one they're off mothers

Angus bulls seem to have lost their easy calving along the way of "improved" ebv weight gains, and anyway, why produce Angus calves that are worth £1200 when 22 month old, when I can sell Shorthorn sired offspring at 12 months old for £1100???
You should be getting £1100 for your angus's at that age too
 

Optimus

Member
I think the key to that is more use of hay rather than silage.

I’ve only got a few, but mine are on good hay til they calve. I can load quadrant bales in front of the feed barrier, so only really need to use a machine every 3 days when scraping and bedding up.

I know it varies over the country but some pre calving diets seem very complicated for a suckler.
We can't feed hay.no where to store it.should really of built a pit for silage but would cost a fortune now.so will just have to carry on with silage bales.all we do is peel it off in front of the barrier an fork it in.
 
We can't feed hay.no where to store it.should really of built a pit for silage but would cost a fortune now.so will just have to carry on with silage bales.all we do is peel it off in front of the barrier an fork it in.
Every bale of hay made here for the last 22 years has been stored outside under plastic sheets. Most of my machinery lives outside let alone hay.
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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