Farmers giving up due to Brexit?

caveman

Member
Location
East Sussex.
Well yes, a lot of people including my family have done ok out of it. The only difference in our case is that we've reinvested most of the money into more land and diversification rather than stash it away. It's a matter of timing in many cases, some will have too much debt if subs go, others will have been in a similar situation ten years earlier and will have paid back most of their debts and will ride out the storm. It doesn't make them better farmers or businessmen.

In some cases yes in others no. Some just got lucky because a rich aunt left her nephew a big lump sum two or three generations ago.

Greed.

It's a bit like a fresh calved milk cow.

The more she milks..... the more hard grub you give her.

Without good judgement........ she eventually gets the sh1!s and gets ill.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
It's a matter of timing in many cases, some will have too much debt if subs go, others will have been in a similar situation ten years earlier and will have paid back most of their debts and will ride out the storm. It doesn't make them better farmers or businessmen.
quite right
 

D14

Member
You have a very dim view of businesses. I don't work like that and nor do my employers. Have a look at some joint venture farming companies. Farming is a small world & you don't get to do something like that more than once.

My vision is 6000 acres with one no till drill, one combine, one sprayer. No Quadtracs or gangs of shiny Lexions. Rotation of wheat, spring barley then a green fallow or grass. Insert cover crops as required. Only plant crops where you can forward sell at least 50% at a price above budgeted cost of production or don't plant it at all. Take out marginal land and put it down to pollinator covers or low input grassland for extensive grazing. Put the land into a Countryside Stewardship agreement that pays to sequester carbon & improve wildlife habitat. One thing the policy makers will pay for is good environmental credentials.

What is your current area? Would you consider dropping loss making break crops in favour of a fallow so you could do some or all of your retiring farmer's land? I wouldn't gear up in this uncertain climate either unless it was on contract hire.

Thats exactly the operation I would not put our land into because rental agreements affect inheritance so its got to be a contract farming type agreement, which on 6000 acres with one combine, one drill and one sprayer is just silly and not realistic in this climate. Its actually off putting.
People entering into any kind of business have an exit strategy and today leaving unpaid debts is easy due to the silly legal system. Everybody has different views of the future but expansion of farming at this moment in time is risky. I do see this outside of farming alot and I can see this approach entering farming slowly as peoples attitudes are changing.
You'll be ok though as you mention you work for a business so you have an easy exit strategy if your bosses decide on a different path which they could easily do. People change their minds all the time so I would not bank on a 400 year business plan moving forward. Brexit could mean using up cash reserves to carry on farming. If that happens then people very quickly will alter their view and become selfish.
 

D14

Member
The more important question would be 'what % of profit is your BPS'.

The aim of profit is to keep it low so tha'ts a pointless figure. 6% off the turnover I can live with. 25% I could not. Nobody else cares to share their figure which is a bit strange as its a simple calculation.
 
Yes. And it seems to have kept those with half a dozen olive trees and 2 goats on the land......but that hasn't happened in Blighty..:scratchhead:

In Portugal, a minimum of 10 kidded females to be maintained to collect subsidy on them. Nothing on olive trees. Other countries differ.

Area payments are made and the original aim is still keeping some on the land, but most of the younger generation now live in a town, or bigger city and work their land when not doing their "day job".

Like everywhere else, the vast majority of peasants want the expensive luxuries that some of us do without, but with a minimum wage of €515 a month they are hard pushed to afford them.
.
 
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Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Reading a book about the history of farming in Lincolnshire.

Late 1800's saw a depression in agricultural commodity prices. Wheat area retreated to only the best most suitable land. Livestock increased along with feed crops for them. Heavy land became impossible to let.

Interesting that until that time, cattle weren't seen as worth keeping in Lincolnshire except for their manure output. Sheep were much more popular. Interesting also that a lot of drainage work and farm buildings were paid for by some sort of government loan scheme up to that time. Oilseed cake was the expensive bought in input of the time a bit like chemical fertilisers now.

Different century, same scenario. Hard times generally see a retrenchment back to producing more feed on farm and buying in less inputs, along with growing crops that more closely suit the particular soil type and more reliance on grass and livestock.

All very much survivable if you play your cards right.

Well put, Dr.
From outside of the circle that's very much what I'd forsee, it's just probably the weathering a storm of a few long years. Some will be in a position that they won't be able to make that gap, and that is really unfortunate, as someone said, timing.
Those who come out the other side will either be really lucky or really quick to adapt, which is what happened here, and alot of development land returned to bush and scrub for many years.
Hopefully many constructive things will come out of the upheaval, as with most upheavals in history. The main part is, you grow their food for them and the time is coming to state the terms of supply. Can't import the lot...
 

7810s

Member
Location
South Coast
The aim of profit is to keep it low so tha'ts a pointless figure. 6% off the turnover I can live with. 25% I could not. Nobody else cares to share their figure which is a bit strange as its a simple calculation.

Well the sub here this year was 18% of turnover, pretty much all goes on rent. The profit will probably be less than the sub this year due to not the best harvest.
Am I worried? Bloody hell I am, being a tenant, having to support retired parents out the business makes farming now tough, going forwards it looks a nightmare.
 
So the CAP was a success and subsidies did achieve the original aims?

Mainly going on hearsay from old folks, but it seems it did originally. The aim was to keep the population throughout Europe in the countryside in all the little villages, living in houses that had no water and no electricity. It seems to have been the next generation - people, say under 50 (?), that moved into the urban areas, and they still are moving in. Many houses still do not have water or electricity, and I have been in some that have rooms without windows. I think this lattter case is common.

The dictator Salazar thought the peasants should not be educated and that way they would not be able to obtain urban work, thereby obviating the need for the cost of all the urban infrastructure.
 

thesilentone

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
Looking forward.......as you do :) Farming in the UK will change - I think, but not much, it will become bigger, better, faster and more productive.
Looking back to recent history, and the small farms that have gone out of business, and how the big have got bigger, this trend will, and must continue if we are to compete on a World stage.
The World migration of people is just starting, why starve in Africa if you can eat in Europe ?
The only way to stop this, is to provide food at source at an affordable price. We are already exploiting the best areas, it is a bit daft bringing food all the way from Kenya, when of 200 million people in Africa are starving !
They need food, or they die, so they risk lives to come to Europe, we will help and educate them (when we can be arsed) and when we learn them how, and the World Bank invests Billions turning sand and desert into green areas, some of the produce will be heading in our direction. Companies like Monsanto, Cargill and Tyson, along with the likes of Walmart will call the tune, we need to kiss Mr Combovers butt for the right trading and licencing deal.....

Our so-called Celebs spending red-nose money near Kenya where the camp populations have increase 20 fold in the last decade. They are helping aide and improve the child mortality rate, an admiral thing to do, until you read behind the headline. 50% of women/girls between 16-25 are pregnant, mostly unwanted, there are many illegal abortions.
The chance of a child surviving compared to the UK is 10/1, but with our help the objective is to bring that down to 4/1. So, in one camp alone of several hundred starving people, we will assist in increasing that number with unwanted children.
What are we doing about feeding them ????

I shouldn't worry to much about the price of wheat :scratchhead:
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
did nothing to halt the demise of the small farmer????????????? Are you completely dillusional?? what do you think has keeped all these small farms going the last 10 years? THE SUBSIDY CHEQUE, it hasn't been the price of grain or livestock that's for sure

I can't think of one small farm here that has been saved by the CAP. Maybe delayed the inevitable, but did not prevent it. CAP also prevented sensible expansion by small farmers due to CAP induced land price bubble.

What kept our small farm going? Our work, training and experience off farm, ingenuity, planning and attention to detail. Avoidance of getting sucked in by shiny toys, salesmen and consultant patter etc. As it is I could weather 10 years of zero profit, that's if I really wanted to. Put a minus sign in front of my big neighbours profit per acre on his thousands of acres and he is going to need very deep pockets to do the same.

Each to their own though. I'm happy to lean on a gate and suck straw now and again. I'll leave the high farming to the experts.

Interesting also to read in that book last night how the area of many local farms shrank during the late 1800's as year on year losses ate capital at an alarming rate. this has never happened in my generations living memory so we somehow think it cant happen but it can. Not saying we are doomed, not at all, just be careful that's all.

i just don't see how big farmers, with their addiction to expensive machinery, reliance on staff and contractors and big inputs are any better placed to weather the storm than small ones. A bigger farm could be a bigger liability in loss making years. If I was a big farmer I would be more worried than I am as a small farmer.

Sometimes I'm glad its just a hobby.;)
 

AgriAlice

New Member
I admit I am not a farmer so will not know as much about farming as all of you guys, but I've been talking to a lot of farmers recently as I'm doing a study on what influences farmers to use conservation agriculture. A lot of people are suggesting that Brexit will mean the loss of subsidies and so farmers are going to have to start cost cutting by moving to practices like no-till. Does anyone else think this is likely?
 

AvonValleyFarmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Leicestershire
I admit I am not a farmer so will not know as much about farming as all of you guys, but I've been talking to a lot of farmers recently as I'm doing a study on what influences farmers to use conservation agriculture. A lot of people are suggesting that Brexit will mean the loss of subsidies and so farmers are going to have to start cost cutting by moving to practices like no-till. Does anyone else think this is likely?
Don't start a debate about DDing :ROFLMAO:
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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