Farming exit scheme Published 8 February 2022

[merino]

That's definitely not the intention, no; we are aiming to manage the agricultural transition in a way that works for farmers and helps businesses and the sector to prosper. We set out our plans for this in the Agricultural Transition Plan here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/agricultural-transition-plan-2021-to-2024.

There's nothing in those documents that could be termed a goal though?
Unless not paying for things is a goal?

 

[theboytheboy]

@Janet Hughes Defra could you explain what the reasoning/objectives/drivers etc are for encouraging some farmers to retire?

Thanks

 

[DRC]

Really...? I'm in Wales, but have family in England who really don't get the impression that DEFRA is pro-farming. None of them are shrinking violets or oversensitive, and they are well able to wade through your dept's correspondence etc..

One - a former accountant - reckons that you are at the start of an incremental process, just a little push here and there, and then another later, and others later still. All directed toward a definite contraction of the industry.

From what I've been shown, the whole, in fact the 'holistic' message from your dep't is that you really don't like farmers, find us rather inconvenient and will be delighted to see fewer of us. But perhaps we are all entirely mistaken...

For what it's worth, I'm not 'having a go' because you are over in England - I am sorry to write that our own lot here in Wales are on a par with you.


Edited to add: to your credit, you do come on here to get a metaphorical earful, others don't.

Oh the irony of a former barrister / solicitor or whatever, and a former accountant, berating the contraction of an industry that you have presumably joined since making your real money elsewhere . The industry has been contracting with every generation, usually by bigger farmers tendering big rents or taking on other farms with contract ( there’s that word again ) farming agreements .
Im not DEFRAs biggest fan, but at least they are offering something, when they could be offering nothing at all.
This after all, is only paying something upfront, with a discount , that can be obtained by staying put .

 

[___\0/___]

Hi, this sounds like an issue you’re having on a Scottish farm? Agriculture is a devolved policy area, so Defra only sets it for England (that includes the Lump Sum Exit Scheme which as you say is for England only). In England, legal standards on the environment, animal health and welfare will continue to apply in relation to any farming activities.

Was a bit tongue in cheek but appreciate you taking the time to reply. The department guy who was full of threats at the start obviously receives a lot of resistance if he is too nice and was actually all right in the end when everthing checked out.

 

[ollie989898]

Oh the irony of a former barrister / solicitor or whatever, and a former accountant, berating the contraction of an industry that you have presumably joined since making your real money elsewhere . The industry has been contracting with every generation, usually by bigger farmers tendering big rents or taking on other farms with contract ( there’s that word again ) farming agreements .
Im not DEFRAs biggest fan, but at least they are offering something, when they could be offering nothing at all.
This after all, is only paying something upfront, with a discount , that can be obtained by staying put .

The industry has been contracting through natural means in the last 40-50 or even more years, that isn't open to debate. The question is why is the government actively trying to make it contract faster? They seem to have no care whatsoever for anything or anyone rural.

 

[merino]

Oh the irony of a former barrister / solicitor or whatever, and a former accountant, berating the contraction of an industry that you have presumably joined since making your real money elsewhere . The industry has been contracting with every generation, usually by bigger farmers tendering big rents or taking on other farms with contract ( there’s that word again ) farming agreements .
Im not DEFRAs biggest fan, but at least they are offering something, when they could be offering nothing at all.
This after all, is only paying something upfront, with a discount , that can be obtained by staying put .

What's DEFRA offering though? Really? That's appreciably different from nothing at all?

 

[CornishTone]

The industry has been contracting through natural means in the last 40-50 or even more years, that isn't open to debate, the question is why is the government actively trying to make it contract faster? They seem to have no care whatsoever for anything or anyone rural.

There was a Westminster Hall Debate (or what ever it’s called) a week or so ago on ELMs. A number of the MPs taking part made mention of government policy to reduce the number of farmers, particularly small farms. It seems to be no secret in Westminster that we are to be culled, and this forms part of that plan.

Incidentally, nearly all those taking part seemed to be on our side, with the exception of the minister, Prentice, who seemed a little out of her depth.

 

[DRC]

What's DEFRA offering though? Really? That's appreciably different from nothing at all?

A chance to get a proportion of the BPS upfront . That’s all.
It is ending completely , which I think many still haven’t computed yet

 

[DRC]

The industry has been contracting through natural means in the last 40-50 or even more years, that isn't open to debate. The question is why is the government actively trying to make it contract faster? They seem to have no care whatsoever for anything or anyone rural.

It could be said that they are trying to cushion the inevitable blow, rather than the drip drip of BpS going over the next few years . As I said, it’s not compulsory at all.
No one but themselves is forced to retire

 

[Still Farming]

No. Capital losses can be carried forward forever. It’s no different to if you bought a house for £200k and sold it for £150k, you’d be creating a £50k capital loss.
Quota and entitlements were treated by HMRC as capital purchases.

Trading losses are a different thing entirely.

As long as not traded with capital then?

 

[Still Farming]

@Janet Hughes Defra could you explain what the reasoning/objectives/drivers etc are for encouraging some farmers to retire?

Thanks

Shall we all start a long list or new thread on the formation of one too?

 

[merino]

A chance to get a proportion of the BPS upfront . That’s all.
It is ending completely , which I think many still haven’t computed yet

A slightly quicker and less lucrative road to nothing?

 

[DRC]

A slightly quicker and less lucrative road to nothing?

Maybe time to farm on our own two feet

 

[Bramble]

No. @Bramble is correct, according to my accountant anyway.

Similar advice from my accountant, unless we‘ve got the same one.

We bought nearly 700,000 litres over the years

 

[merino]

Maybe time to farm on our own two feet

Ah, a hiding to nothing?

 

[neilo]

Similar advice from my accountant, unless we‘ve got the same one.

We bought nearly 700,000 litres over the years

We could well have, I still use one in Stratford.

 

[Bramble]

We could well have, I still use one in Stratford.

Mines in Banbury, so at least 2 accountants believe the advice

 

[Danllan]

Oh the irony of a former barrister / solicitor or whatever, and a former accountant, berating the contraction of an industry that you have presumably joined since making your real money elsewhere . The industry has been contracting with every generation, usually by bigger farmers tendering big rents or taking on other farms with contract ( there’s that word again ) farming agreements .
Im not DEFRAs biggest fan, but at least they are offering something, when they could be offering nothing at all.
This after all, is only paying something upfront, with a discount , that can be obtained by staying put .

Ah, well, as we used to say in the Army, post Saddam, 'Presumption is the mother of all f^ckups!' In fact I ran away from a farm to join the Army, then went to Uni', and after law decided and confirmed that I rather liked farming after all - except sheep...

I'm well aware of the historical facts, but I can't think of any precedent for government actively seeking the shrinking - rather than 'consolidation' - of it.

 

[DRC]

Ah, well, as we used to say in the Army, post Saddam, 'Presumption is the mother of all f^ckups!' In fact I ran away from a farm to join the Army, then went to Uni', and after law decided and confirmed that I rather liked farming after all - except sheep...

I'm well aware of the historical facts, but I can't think of any precedent for government actively seeking the shrinking - rather than 'consolidation' - of it.

I don’t think it’s unprecedented . I seem to remember a booklet being sent to farmers around the time IACs was being implemented , with advice on other jobs/ careers farmers might do . Maybe it’s them being helpful to farmers who won’t do so well when the subs are gone completely .

 

[Bossfarmer]

Sorry I can't help with devolved nations policy issues - as agriculture is a devolved policy area, it is up to the devolved administrations whether they choose to offer anything similar in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland.

Id prefer to stay aligned with our biggest competitors the EU and continue with direct payments, trying to compete on a level playingfield without them would be impossible, shame on defra for what theyre doing to the English farmers just now!