- Location
- South Wales UK
Soon get Educated when SFP scrapped .
No handouts No money ?
Simple calculation .
No handouts No money ?
Simple calculation .
Farming subsidies should be scrapped.
- Thread starter llamedos
- Start date
- Location
- South Molton
SFP was scrapped couple of years ago.
If we are going to scrap subsidies lets do all. Like ones for universities, no vat on aviation fuel, subsidised rail travel etc etc
- Location
- South Wales UK
And guess what we will still get it in the future,might be called something different and have to do different things to get it but it will still be on offer
- Location
- South Wales UK
Who knows
- Location
- South Molton
Some posters speak of 100k in capital items in CSS schemes. Thats a hell of a sub!
Walterp
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
Not really.
Many dealers receive £250,000 + per annum BPS (now on a sliding scale, and subject to the cap) because they bought loads of steers on retention and claimed all the BSPS/SPpayments (they had paid extra for the cattle, though) and many extensive upland farmers on £100,000 + per annum .
It was one of the many sources of resentment that caused some farmers to vote 'leave', to my personal knowledge.
- Location
- South Molton
So a sub to fence land, put in gates, clear gorse, manage woodland is ok? When others can't get it because they haven't got the right bee or butterfly this year?
I wasn't talking about BPS but CSS
Thats basic payment scheme and countryside stewardship.
Its money for keeping a farm to a standard it should be anyway. If you let a farm go wild you get money if you keep the hedges and fences up you get less. Strange old world.
- Location
- South Wales UK
Do the public tax payers want tidy farms anyhow ?
- Location
- South Molton
They want cheap food thats produced to a high standard.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
Ha - I wouldn't worry about it, apparently I'm not a "real" farmer cos I don't have livestock, don't plough, don't get a hard on over tractors
As for extravagant lifestyles or shiny machinery or unnecessary expansion . . . I drive a 20 yr old Landcruiser, my main farming tractor is 10 yrs / 8000 hrs old
Most of my debt occurred from a run of very wet years 98 - 2000 which nearly wiped me out with flooding & lost crops, a grain trader going bust owing me a lot of money & a divorce 2007. Combined with a few poor decisions & a couple of yrs lost with severe depression when I took my eye off the ball in a big way . . .
If you can farm without debt or borrowings, more power to you
I just don't think it would be possible here . . .
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
Also, we have such a variable / extreme environment that in any given year we could potentially clear all debt - or double it . . .
Folk over here say thatHa - I wouldn't worry about it, apparently I'm not a "real" farmer cos I don't have livestock, don't plough, don't get a hard on over tractors
As for extravagant lifestyles or shiny machinery or unnecessary expansion . . . I drive a 20 yr old Landcruiser, my main farming tractor is 10 yrs / 8000 hrs old
Most of my debt occurred from a run of very wet years 98 - 2000 which nearly wiped me out with flooding & lost crops, a grain trader going bust owing me a lot of money & a divorce 2007. Combined with a few poor decisions & a couple of yrs lost with severe depression when I took my eye off the ball in a big way . . .
If you can farm without debt or borrowings, more power to you
I just don't think it would be possible here . . .
You can't get in to farming
You have to borrow so much money
I want it all placed in my lap
Bull
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Yes you need to put up a steading and hold your breath for a few minutes.Ha - I wouldn't worry about it, apparently I'm not a "real" farmer cos I don't have livestock, don't plough, don't get a hard on over tractors
As for extravagant lifestyles or shiny machinery or unnecessary expansion . . . I drive a 20 yr old Landcruiser, my main farming tractor is 10 yrs / 8000 hrs old
Most of my debt occurred from a run of very wet years 98 - 2000 which nearly wiped me out with flooding & lost crops, a grain trader going bust owing me a lot of money & a divorce 2007. Combined with a few poor decisions & a couple of yrs lost with severe depression when I took my eye off the ball in a big way . . .
If you can farm without debt or borrowings, more power to you
I just don't think it would be possible here . . .
Then you'll be properer.
Farming is all about 19 hour days, best you crack on with it.
- Location
- South Wales UK
No one is forced to farm or forced into debt unknowingly so why presume profits or state handouts to clear all ?
The culture needs changing ?
Bad Farms will be just left as "flogging a dead horse ".
Mountains will be mountains .
The World will turn .
The culture needs changing ?
Bad Farms will be just left as "flogging a dead horse ".
Mountains will be mountains .
The World will turn .
[QUOTE="Farmer Roy, post: 4476328, member: 166 and Ha - I wouldn't worry earn it, apparently I'm not a "real" farmer cos I don't have livestock, don't plough, don't get a hard on over tractors
As for extravagant lifestyles or shiny machinery or unnecessary expansion . . . I drive a 20 yr old Landcruiser, my main farming tractor is 10 yrs / 8000 hrs old
Most of my debt occurred from a run of very wet years 98 - 2000 which nearly wiped me out with flooding & lost crops, a grain trader going bust owing me a lot of money & a divorce 2007. Combined with a few poor decisions & a couple of yrs lost with severe depression when I took my eye off the ball in a big way . . .
If you can farm without debt or borrowings, more power to you
I just don't think it would be possible here . . .[/QUOTE]
Not usually possible here usually old money , family rates or an income earnt somewhere else drip feeding it cashflow till gets established .
Once got alot of stick about buying a new truck - how can you do it ? I said it was easier,
well I never had the amount of cash needed in hand to buy a decent 2nd hand but I could dump the old one on the dealers forecourt sign a bit of paper and off we go with no hassle and a warranty !
As for extravagant lifestyles or shiny machinery or unnecessary expansion . . . I drive a 20 yr old Landcruiser, my main farming tractor is 10 yrs / 8000 hrs old
Most of my debt occurred from a run of very wet years 98 - 2000 which nearly wiped me out with flooding & lost crops, a grain trader going bust owing me a lot of money & a divorce 2007. Combined with a few poor decisions & a couple of yrs lost with severe depression when I took my eye off the ball in a big way . . .
If you can farm without debt or borrowings, more power to you
I just don't think it would be possible here . . .[/QUOTE]
Not usually possible here usually old money , family rates or an income earnt somewhere else drip feeding it cashflow till gets established .
Once got alot of stick about buying a new truck - how can you do it ? I said it was easier,
well I never had the amount of cash needed in hand to buy a decent 2nd hand but I could dump the old one on the dealers forecourt sign a bit of paper and off we go with no hassle and a warranty !
not sure about that they do say it is slowing and one day will be swallowed up by the sun anyway
but not to worry sh!t happens
Global ovine
Member
- Location
- Central Otago NZ
This thread has been an interesting occasional read over the last fortnight. It's posters have traversed despair and defense of current systems to predicting gloom through what the future market will present for the UK farming sectors. Much of the comment I think is unwarranted, as farmers surely are creatures used to working in an ever changing environment. Even if they can't think for themselves, soon do what they see as successful by looking over the fence.
If the basis of subsidisation changes or subsidies are largely eliminated, farmers always make the best of their given situation. Current UK farming systems (and my experience is entirely within the sheep industry throughout the UK and Ireland) have adapted to exploit the market and any other incomes. However over the last couple of decades, irrespective of commodity cycle stage, profitability has been eroded. This has led to dependency on whatever subsidies become available. AHDB statistics prove this for all land classes producing beef and lamb (obviously some outstanding individuals fall outside these data).
Unless subsidies in any form do not increase, the current farming systems will not be viable into the future. Farmers are price takers and are subjected to working cost inflation, consumer rejection of product if the price increases to that which is acceptable for UK farming profit and product competition from more efficient producers overseas.
If the system appears broken, change the system.
As painful as the economic revolution in NZ was (I farmed through it as a new entrant), the speed of change necessary did focus the mind. Gradual change does not, as profitability decline in creep mode can be difficult to recognise. There is enough evidence now that much of UK agriculture in its current forms are under serious threat if some of the suggested policies are implemented by those in Westminster.
The good news is there already plenty of recent success stories appearing where "traditional" UK farming systems are getting a real shake up to extract higher profit, to be non reliant on subsidies, running lower labour and feed inputs and putting quality of life higher in priority.
There are always casualties when speed of change is the essence (Darwin's law), but this also gives industry leavers opportunities for a better life. Not everybody faced with economic reality thinks they have no future, but some certainly need mental support to negotiate change.
There are some wonderful tools now available to redesign pastoral systems. There are some excellent genetics that not only increase output, but are capable of slashing production costs. There has never been only one way to farm, wherever one farms.
Yes some major threats are looming, to some these are major opportunities......which camp you join is your choice.
If the basis of subsidisation changes or subsidies are largely eliminated, farmers always make the best of their given situation. Current UK farming systems (and my experience is entirely within the sheep industry throughout the UK and Ireland) have adapted to exploit the market and any other incomes. However over the last couple of decades, irrespective of commodity cycle stage, profitability has been eroded. This has led to dependency on whatever subsidies become available. AHDB statistics prove this for all land classes producing beef and lamb (obviously some outstanding individuals fall outside these data).
Unless subsidies in any form do not increase, the current farming systems will not be viable into the future. Farmers are price takers and are subjected to working cost inflation, consumer rejection of product if the price increases to that which is acceptable for UK farming profit and product competition from more efficient producers overseas.
If the system appears broken, change the system.
As painful as the economic revolution in NZ was (I farmed through it as a new entrant), the speed of change necessary did focus the mind. Gradual change does not, as profitability decline in creep mode can be difficult to recognise. There is enough evidence now that much of UK agriculture in its current forms are under serious threat if some of the suggested policies are implemented by those in Westminster.
The good news is there already plenty of recent success stories appearing where "traditional" UK farming systems are getting a real shake up to extract higher profit, to be non reliant on subsidies, running lower labour and feed inputs and putting quality of life higher in priority.
There are always casualties when speed of change is the essence (Darwin's law), but this also gives industry leavers opportunities for a better life. Not everybody faced with economic reality thinks they have no future, but some certainly need mental support to negotiate change.
There are some wonderful tools now available to redesign pastoral systems. There are some excellent genetics that not only increase output, but are capable of slashing production costs. There has never been only one way to farm, wherever one farms.
Yes some major threats are looming, to some these are major opportunities......which camp you join is your choice.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
"One million dollars"
Last edited: