Farming without subsidies

Discussion in 'Agricultural Matters' started by Farmer Fin, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Farmer Fin

    Farmer Fin Member

    Just reading the FW farmer focus bit this morning. Piece about the Hodgkins says how they farm subsidy free yet his piece is all about waiting for his BPS. Not knocking him as they seem to be trying their hardest to make a go of things and doing things differently, but still reliant on BPS.
     
    Brisel likes this.
  2. Tim W likes this.
  3. Northeastfarmer

    Location:
    Cleveland
  4. ive made my opinion clear im happy to farm sub free if the rest of the world looses the 497bn it gives to farmers each year, if theyre going to continue to keep supporting them and keeping world prices low we need to support our own
     
  5. I don’t think the cost of commodities can be allowed to rise as certain people In societies around the world will go hungry. Especially if we run short. Therefore I can’t see that subsidies globally will ever go, and if we loose all our payments here imported produce will be very competitive as it will be produced at an artificially low price. Just a thought, how many farms now have a diversification bringing in an income plus the BPS, on top? It’s not for every farm.
    I’m interested to understand how much subsidy affects the costs of our farm purchases/costs.
    It does make you wonder..............
     
    Sheeponfire and Brisel like this.
  6. subs definately increase the likes of machinery and fert but removing ours wont necessarily reduce these much if europe is still getting their payments, its often assumed that remove subs and automatically all our suppliers will cut their costs and we will not be any worse off, its not that simple our suppliers have costs they cant cut such as staff and must pay min wage as do most farms
     
    graham99 and jackrussell101 like this.
  7. Clive

    Clive Staff Member

    Location:
    Lichfield
    If you can’t farm sub free you shouldn't be farming imo

    Sorry - I know that will upset a few ! I’m talking from my arable perspective as well but fundementally why the hell should food production be subsidised ?

    My sub pays rent and finance though so has been a great bonus to expand and get ready for the future

    It’s not a case of “if” but without doubt food subs are going, money will come from our provision of public goods but that’s a by product of good farming practice anyway imo
     
  8. if your sub pays the rent your not farming sub free
     
    Hfd Cattle, neilo, Purli R and 3 others like this.
  9. Clive

    Clive Staff Member

    Location:
    Lichfield
    Yes I am - I simply pass the sub to the land owner - his land ownership is subsidised not my ability to produce food profitably
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  10. what are you going to pass over once the subs stop?
     
  11. egbert

    egbert Member

    I'm sure we've all had this conversation before
    ..... (I prefer 'Source code' to 'Groundhog day' myself, although I'm thinking there's another similar)
     
  12. Clive

    Clive Staff Member

    Location:
    Lichfield
    That’s the land owners problem not mine !

    Rents around here are simply inflated by the value of sub, so without it they will all adjust to the bare land rental value which is perfectly affordable whilst still being nicely profitable

    Most farms have fixed cost structures that are frankly ridiculous vs where they could / should be - they may be good farmers but seriously lacking in the ability to run a business

    It will put somef farns out of business - this is not a bad thing .............
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  13. Clive

    Clive Staff Member

    Location:
    Lichfield
  14. super4

    super4 Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    I can't see landowners accepting the reduction in there base earnings either from rent or through cf agreements. The tenant or contractors margin will fall to give the landowner a bit more after the loss of the sub. We will all be worse off.
     
  15. egbert

    egbert Member

    bleddy hell Clive, hang on a minute.
    it's all very well looking at bare arable land, but it's not all like that.
    On one site, I rent grazing/mowing land off someone who claims the sub direct.
    I don't pay em a whole lot (unfertilised, mole and bracken infested ground, partly steep, and needs yet more fencing, although i'm very fond of it),
    ...and if the costs of their fencing and the odd bit of maintenance are factored in, they're struggling to make tuppence without the sub.
    You wouldn't want to be paying a mortgage on what i can pay them.

    Take away the sub, and the family would be looking at a stark choice.

    i'm not sure who you'd have put out of business here.
    The rest of my operation is massively subbed, although this block has to stand on a certain amount of rationale, while their lives are propped up elsewhere (by subs on other ground, and I believe 'other income').

    come the glorious day Brothers ('Freedom for Tooting' and all that), with no subs at all (and I suspect it won't come to that just there given its high enviro score) ...
    I'd struggle to run any kind of cattle enterprise in a wholly unsubbed business,
    while the saleable value of such ground wouldn't fall much because it's in a nat park, near a village, and a short clip clop up a stoned track to open moorland.

    it's questionable whether, in a 'no sub' situation, whether this land would be farmed at all.
    Is that a good plan for the nation?

    Another one then.
    Elsewhere (lower down), i rent out arable ground at the going rate, whilst also claiming on it myself.
    My customer grows maize and/or barley, which is currently flogged into farm usage.
    If his customers get the cramps because they're struggling to make stock pay.....well, I suppose he could send maize to an AD plant, but I thought we were talking about a world without subs?

    I suspect my income from that land is destined to plummet in fairly short order.
     
  16. super4

    super4 Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    I really like the positivity from Sir Lockwood Smith on our potential future. It will be a industry bloodbath to achieve it though.
     
    Brisel likes this.
  17. Forage Trader

    Forage Trader Member

    Location:
    Ceredigion
    What do you do about high hill land . It's not viable without sub , farmers would have to pack up and leave as the only option would be to plant it with trees
     
  18. Tim W

    Tim W Member

    Location:
    Wiltshire
    Then plant it with trees (y)
    Or let someone else do something else with it
     
  19. Forage Trader

    Forage Trader Member

    Location:
    Ceredigion
    You cant do anything with it other than hill sheep . It would have been planted in the 60ts if it was not for the subs
     
    graham99 likes this.
  20. jamesy

    jamesy Member

    Location:
    Orkney
    12:01 was a good one too
     

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