Farming without subsidies

[lazy farmer]

Strip grazing is exactly what we are talking about. Thats one way of achieving the necessary weight of livestock per acre to churn it up

No it’s not solely about that. We used to strip graze. Cows would be in fields for literally weeks at a time uality fell as you crossed the field. . All regrowth was eaten the plant left exhausted so output of grass and then milk/meat is reduced. This system is the exact opposite of that.

 

[Agrispeed]

No it’s not solely about that. We used to strip graze. Cows would be in fields for literally weeks at a time uality fell as you crossed the field. . All regrowth was eaten the plant left exhausted so output of grass and then milk/meat is reduced. This system is the exact opposite of that.

Quality?
This is quality!

Technograzing is similar to conventional cell grazing - when 'well managed' you would get your entry covers and take cells in and out to match that. I'm not sure that is actually the best use of grass - why take it out and cut it when you can just let it grow and graze it later, without the cost of making and feeding silage.

On this farm, when it was sucklers, moving to mob stocking meant a 30-40% increase in stock numbers for no extra inputs over rotational grazing. I mob stock my dairy heifers and have yet to feed them any harvested forage.

Tight 12-24hr cells are key, strip grazing without getting them off the aftermath is no where near as effective.

 

[lazy farmer]

Quality?
This is quality!
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Technograzing is similar to conventional cell grazing - when 'well managed' you would get your entry covers and take cells in and out to match that. I'm not sure that is actually the best use of grass - why take it out and cut it when you can just let it grow and graze it later, without the cost of making and feeding silage.

On this farm, when it was sucklers, moving to mob stocking meant a 30-40% increase in stock numbers for no extra inputs over rotational grazing. I mob stock my dairy heifers and have yet to feed them any harvested forage.

Tight 12-24hr cells are key, strip grazing without getting them off the aftermath is no where near as effective.

Has the “carrying capacity” in this case drainage improved by reducing days with stock on ?

 

[stewart]

Probably because we are all sick of know it all smartarses from other countries who spout of at dickheads conventions. Especially thosewho have sir as a first name.

I would assume that Lockwood Smith was paid to talk at the conference, so someone must have thought he was worth listening to. As he was talking about the experience that NZ went through when subsidies were removed and how they coped with moving toward a free trade economy I think he may be worth listing to.
There of course those that think they know everything and they do not have to listen to anyone, much preferring to complain and moan and believe the world owes then a living instead of taking their head out of their arse and actually doing something themselves.

 

[Agrispeed]

Has the “carrying capacity” in this case drainage improved by reducing days with stock on ?

The mat of grass the cows wipe their feet on certainly makes a difference. The extra OM and deeper rooted species would certainly improve soil structure and resilience. I don't currently run a hardcore mob stocking system, but have done in the past and you can make quite a mess (cows in 100mm of rain and no grass visible type of mess), but 100+ days of recovery time means the ground recovers to the degree you cant see the damage.

Drainage isn't really so much of an issue here, 140 acres and not one of them flat. Building soil and fertility on hillsides is an issue though.

 

[stewart]

Not seen the clip, nor commented on it. The opinion of some on here is that we should be ashamed to ask more for our produce, nobody owes us a living, and that we're " commies ", and should get a job elsewhere.....

Fine, I couldn't care less, I'm semi retired from farming, but still manage to turn a profit to remain where I live. If things get worse, I'll retire completely.
If we want a vibrant industry that will attract new blood though, we need 21st century prices, not gimmicks and niche markets, that keep 5% viable. Or the industry could go the same way as coal mining, manufacturing, ship building etc,etc.......

Nothing wrong with asking more for what you produce and certainly nothing to be ashamed of, however the market is the market is the market and you can only get what the market will pay, if you are unable to produce for the market price than perhaps it is time to move on and let others that are able to produce for that price take over, or try and have some control of the market and get more of the income from further up the supply chain.

 

[kiwi pom]

One of the things that is regularly mentioned on here is that farmers should get more, be paid properly or get a fair price for the things they produce.
I'd agree with this, farmers should get more when you consider the work they put in and investment required BUT what would happen if you did get more - lets say double the price- will everything really stay as it is, you'll just have more money?
I don't think so, look what happens every time something does improve for a year. Milk price for example. Everyone gets a bit of money, doesn't want to pay any tax so invests in expansion. Other people see the chance to make money and jump in too. Now there's too much milk and the price drops.
Regulations, laws, subs, RT, the government and even other countries all get the blame for low prices, but I think its just a case of too many farmers all competing against one another that's the biggest problem.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

One of the things that is regularly mentioned on here is that farmers should get more, be paid properly or get a fair price for the things they produce.
I'd agree with this, farmers should get more when you consider the work they put in and investment required BUT what would happen if you did get more - lets say double the price- will everything really stay as it is, you'll just have more money?
I don't think so, look what happens every time something does improve for a year. Milk price for example. Everyone gets a bit of money, doesn't want to pay any tax so invests in expansion. Other people see the chance to make money and jump in too. Now there's too much milk and the price drops.
Regulations, laws, subs, RT, the government and even other countries all get the blame for low prices, but I think its just a case of too many farmers all competing against one another that's the biggest problem.

Supply and Demand

 

[Hilly]

Supply and Demand

Yes, hence a move toward Contracts , supply guaranteed farmers competing for contracts using contracts to get more debt suppressing demand keeping us right under the thumb.

 

[willy]

Supply and demand is not the true factor, it’s perceived supply that is important. They will pay what they have to if they think there’s a shortage look at grain price fluctuation on weather perceived risk, or miss calculation by the usda. What we need is Russia to hack all data sites and send the world into a spin

 

[willy]

Tongue in cheek obvs

 

[kiwi pom]

Supply and Demand

Yep, add in all the people willing to do it for the lifestyle and living in the countryside instead of all out profit - perhaps more common in the UK- and you can see where the problems begin.

 

[willy]

Yep, add in all the people willing to do it for the lifestyle and living in the countryside instead of all out profit - perhaps more common in the UK- and you can see where the problems begin.

Ah but NZ output went up since subs stopped, so maybe even more cheap food as our output skyrockets once subs go

 

[Hilly]

Supply and demand is not the true factor, it’s perceived supply that is important. They will pay what they have to if they think there’s a shortage look at grain price fluctuation on weather perceived risk, or miss calculation by the usda. What we need is Russia to hack all data sites and send the world into a spin

Wait till they hit a satellite or 4 it will spin then.

 

[Canada Farmer]

Supply and Demand

Supply management ......

 

[Brisel]

Supply management ......

That would require farmers to work together to manage the supply, and more importantly, production. Collective bargaining is sound but does need everyone to work together without cheating for a few cents more. How is your wheat market now the Canadian Wheat Board has gone?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

One of the things that is regularly mentioned on here is that farmers should get more, be paid properly or get a fair price for the things they produce.
I'd agree with this, farmers should get more when you consider the work they put in and investment required BUT what would happen if you did get more - lets say double the price- will everything really stay as it is, you'll just have more money?
I don't think so, look what happens every time something does improve for a year. Milk price for example. Everyone gets a bit of money, doesn't want to pay any tax so invests in expansion. Other people see the chance to make money and jump in too. Now there's too much milk and the price drops.
Regulations, laws, subs, RT, the government and even other countries all get the blame for low prices, but I think its just a case of too many farmers all competing against one another that's the biggest problem.

Quite, look at the costs and attitude of many dairy farmers over here, when the payout went high a couple of years back - costs simply rise to suit, in many cases.

Then it goes back a couple of bucks and some realise they are milking most of their "extra" cows simply to pay for the grain, the grain system, the molasses system, and the fertiliser.
Most don't realise this...
All the while the guys who didn't try "to feed the world" just keep making money.

They never like that fact pointed out, that they are milking more cows to make less money...

And that's what I fear would happen or has happened elsewhere, when the values of things are distorted-- the land doesn't know some idiot paid far too much for it, so how's a sheep or calf to know?

Just because writing cheques your land can't cash is common, doesn't mean it's smart business.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

No it’s not solely about that. We used to strip graze. Cows would be in fields for literally weeks at a time uality fell as you crossed the field. . All regrowth was eaten the plant left exhausted so output of grass and then milk/meat is reduced. This system is the exact opposite of that.

That's the one, it's all about protecting that new regrowth from being nipped off - some farmers pride themselves in "cleaning it all up" - namely the ones who depend on fertiliser and seed and diesel to farm with. And that's controlled starvation.

I depend on rain falling, that's why I farm this way; for every mm of rain that falls, we grow over a kg of animal/ha.
I also depend on reliable profit, ie. being able to pay myself $100/hr and still pay the bank afterwards.

This is with beef that I sell finished for about £600-650, and you guys don't get enough for your produce?

 

[Weasel]

I visited a very successful Scottish hill farmer in the summer. He is using suckler cows and electric fencing to break in hill ground, converting it into in bye ground.

I also visited a new dairy conversion. The land was severely neglected. He drained the land before burning off the rubbish, disking it and sowing rye grass. Jersey cows are milked twice a day for a liquid drinking contract.

The accounts he showed me were very profitable, without taking into account the substantial capital uplift.

Visit some of these people and see for yourself. I found them extremely welcoming and open.

Are you trying to say that grazing a hill covered in bracken and rushes with suckler cows makes it in to inbye land? What a load of twaddle!

 

[unlacedgecko]

Are you trying to say that grazing a hill covered in bracken and rushes with suckler cows makes it in to inbye land? What a load of twaddle!

You’re absolutely right. It’s impossible to improve land by grazing

It’s impossible to make any money farming. Farmers will forever be wholly dependent on government handouts. Unless one was lucky enough to inherit ground and BPS entitlements, or already owns entitlements, then one might as well give up now.

For sale, 1 poorly maintained shepherds quad and 1 badly trained collie. PM for details.

On an unrelated topic, does anyone need an HGV driver?