Farming without subsidies

[ShooTa]

@unlacedgecko sold - ill take both off your hands - and the shephard minus the 3 square meals and the board. all for free.

<-- currently fixing land with sheep in higher desnisties and longer swards - i blame @Kiwi Pete

 

[Weasel]

You’re absolutely right. It’s impossible to improve land by grazing

It’s impossible to make any money farming. Farmers will forever be wholly dependent on government handouts. Unless one was lucky enough to inherit ground and BPS entitlements, or already owns entitlements, then one might as well give up now.

For sale, 1 poorly maintained shepherds quad and 1 badly trained collie. PM for details.

On an unrelated topic, does anyone need an HGV driver?

If subs stop every farmer will be driving a lorry. So you better be quick

 

[unlacedgecko]

@unlacedgecko sold - ill take both off your hands - and the shephard minus the 3 square meals and the board. all for free.

<-- currently fixing land with sheep in higher desnisties and longer swards - i blame @Kiwi Pete

Damn colonials and they’re unfair advantages.

If you’ve got sheep in long covers, don’t forget to footvax and foot bath weekly. The input suppliers need your money!

 

[unlacedgecko]

If subs stop every farmer will be driving a lorry. So you better be quick

I’ve got the unfair advantage of 13 years experience, and my licence was paid for by someone else. I’ve also got the unfair advantage of extra qualifications.

I’m sure I’ll cope

 

[Weasel]

I’ve got the unfair advantage of 13 years experience, and my licence was paid for by someone else. I’ve also got the unfair advantage of extra qualifications.

I’m sure I’ll cope

Plenty folk with more than that

 

[unlacedgecko]

Plenty folk with more than that

sh!t.

McDonalds it is then. “Do you want fries with that?”

 

[Weasel]

sh!t.

McDonalds it is then. “Do you want fries with that?”

You'd fit in well there

 

[jendan]

No it’s not solely about that. We used to strip graze. Cows would be in fields for literally weeks at a time uality fell as you crossed the field. . All regrowth was eaten the plant left exhausted so output of grass and then milk/meat is reduced. This system is the exact opposite of that.

Use smaller fields or sub divide and use a back fence.If the cows are in the same field for weeks,then the field is too large.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Use smaller fields or sub divide and use a back fence.If the cows are in the same field for weeks,then the field is too large.

Yes, exactly.
Watch any nature documentary involving grazing animals and there are predatory species constantly moving them on.

The cheetahs obviously aren't all sat at the mart cafe moaning about the world owing them one, or learning how to be amateur veterinarians; being the herd doctor is not their deal - they are simply there to dispose of the slow and the weak.

But the effect that they have on the ecosystem is immense, simply by being there: moving the animals before they're eating around their own sh!t, and overgrazing their forage.

That's why the gazelles don't limp, it's also why my sheep don't.
It's why nobody needs to fertilise or re-seed or plough up the savannah - it's also why I don't need to waste my time at it.

Success leaves clues.

 

[lazy farmer]

If subs stop every farmer will be driving a lorry. So you better be quick

Good job I don’t need subs You wouldn’t want me driving a lorry!

 

[Red Fred]

If subs stop every farmer will be driving a lorry.

But how much longer will there be lorries to drive? 20 years from now, they might not have cabs.

 

[Canada Farmer]

Use smaller fields or sub divide and use a back fence.If the cows are in the same field for weeks,then the field is too large.

If the fields are too big , then put them in smaller paddocks ,eh ?

 

[Canada Farmer]

Yes, exactly.
Watch any nature documentary involving grazing animals and there are predatory species constantly moving them on.

The cheetahs obviously aren't all sat at the mart cafe moaning about the world owing them one, or learning how to be amateur veterinarians; being the herd doctor is not their deal - they are simply there to dispose of the slow and the weak.

But the effect that they have on the ecosystem is immense, simply by being there: moving the animals before they're eating around their own sh!t, and overgrazing their forage.

That's why the gazelles don't limp, it's also why my sheep don't.
It's why nobody needs to fertilise or re-seed or plough up the savannah - it's also why I don't need to waste my time at it.

Success leaves clues.

You have cheetahs and gazelles in South Otago?

 

[Red Fred]

You have cheetahs and gazelles in South Otago?

I ran into a cougar in Taranaki.

 

[stewart]

But how much longer will there be lorries to drive? 20 years from now, they might not have cabs.

Should we then subsdise the truck drivers? Or will they have to adapt?

 

[Canada Farmer]

I ran into a cougar in Taranaki.

 

[ollie989898]

sh!t.

McDonalds it is then. “Do you want fries with that?”

Is the milkshake machine working today?

 

[wurzell1976]

I left school in 1992 and went straight to ag college. My father was struggling with his arable & beef farm throughout the 1980s & I always had a keen interest in taking it on eventually. The stories of EEC grain & butter mountains, wine & milk lakes were all over the news. He tried to talk me out of it & I briefly looked at training in agribusiness but my heart was always in farming. He sold the farm a long time ago hence me now managing other people's land. I started back on the family farm in 1997 as the backside fell out of farming & seemed to spend most of my time fixing land drains in those very wet winters on heavy land on a spring line. A resistant blackgrass population and dead soil mined by a CFA for years was never going to wipe its face.

With no till and Countryside Stewardship money on the more marginal land, I can farm without BPS and still turn a profit. You're right - there will be many that won't survive the change and a bad deal with unhindered imports and tariffs on exports would really be tough for everyone.

Regrettably ,i had a similar experience not long after i left school .Unwavering persistence for 30 years,more good luck than bad,some help from people i will never forget and a useful wife ,has led me to consider myself fortunate.However whilst i think the future is going to be interesting, i"m being cautious ,i have given up some expensive rented land and have virtually no machinery finance for the time being .

 

[ADbeefboy]

What happened in New Zealand when subsidies were removed was that 10% of farmers went out of business but 90% of their suppliers went bust. The farming industry over there went through a very tough time for a lot of years ,why you would wish this on yourself and your fellow farmers is beyond me.

Was a lot of debt not written off when subsidies ended in NZ?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Was a lot of debt not written off when subsidies ended in NZ?

A bit, same as most debt you'd have no hope of recovering.
Compared to the debt levels of today though, miniscule; but NZ has the youngest farmers in the world, and a lot of rural property listed - not businesses in trouble, just evolving upwards.

Also, NZ has about the lowest farmgate meat prices of anywhere - and about the highest price on cereals.
It's a totally 'different beast', simply for the fact you have to make your own fortunes, they simply aren't given to you.
You want safety? You'd better make that, too.

However, dealing with farmers here, getting paid for work etc - it's almost like dealing with people who've dealt with depression - you get paid early, not late, we all know how important the necessary parts are, and can see how unnecessary the cling-ons really are. Same as depressed people know what it is to feel worthless!

I know we really p!ss @7610 super q etc. off at times, but all we see elsewhere is this:

And the UK has some of the best farmgate prices in the world, don't forget.

The cost structures, systems employed, and lack of value returned... these are just too high to be sustained, subsidies and payments have guaranteed that it's that way.
I have my doubts that farming without "subsidies" (don't forget they ended in 1992) is actually viable . Nothing will change until the fire is lit.