Farming without subsidies

[egbert]

I got this crazy idea at college that instead of spending a pre-college year on a farm students from a farming background should do a year anywhere but a farm. Perhaps it wasn't that crazy after all.

One of the most accomplished farmers I've ever known was sent off as a lad, to work for another-unconnected- trade altogether.
He eventually came home, via a stint in smithfield i believe- to learn the meat trade- and is as shrewd a farmer as i know.

 

[Scribus]

One of the most accomplished farmers I've ever known was sent off as a lad, to work for another-unconnected- trade altogether.
He eventually came home, via a stint in smithfield i believe- to learn the meat trade- and is as shrewd a farmer as i know.

Funny you should say that as one farmer I got to know and admire years ago had started as a lad in a butchers at 14, having been considered not really bright enough to stay on at school. It wasn't a vast farm he had but it was tidy, prosperous and he knew his stuff.

On the other hand there was a lad at college who came from a well respected family of farmers, had a good few acres at home and his dad was a big noise in the NFU. Don't get me wrong, he was genuinely bright and likable but his thinking stopped at the farm gate, a walking talking NFU bot. I think it was him that gave me the idea about a pre-college year outside of the trade.

 

[glasshouse]

A very sexist view isn’t it. My wife is a partner in the business and all decisions are discussed together . I value her input and support .
What training have you had in doing machinery deals

I knew someone would throw in the sexist element.
My wife might be a doctor but i wouldnt try to advise her on the feasability or need for a new xray machine

 

[stewart]

I got this crazy idea at college that instead of spending a pre-college year on a farm students from a farming background should do a year anywhere but a farm. Perhaps it wasn't that crazy after all.

Nothing crazy about that idea. It should be mandatory.

 

[glasshouse]

There was plenty of cheap land down here in 1953. Next door sold to the forestry commission for 7 shillings an acre. Grade 3 mixed farming land was £22 per acre, cheaper than livestock farms in the west of Scotland. Banks wouldn't lend my grandfather anything. His wife wouldn't lend him anything either, so he borrowed the money he needed to stock the farm from his vet. Three years later his pigs got anthrax and he nearly went bust. The ministry brought lorry loads of coal in to burn all his livestock then buried the ash in lime. His first cereal harvest was nearly ruined by the wet summer of 1954 and drying charges took what little profit there was. His first decade here was quite difficult to say the least. He must have had a brass neck and balls of steel.

A shrewd man

 

[stewart]

I knew someone would throw in the sexist element.
My wife might be a doctor but i wouldnt try to advise her on the feasability or need for a new xray machine

Rather ridiculous analogy, a doctor takes a lot more skill and training to become a doctor whereas any half wit could farm, infact being a half wit is probably what is required to become a farmer.

 

[glasshouse]

You're views on a women's role on farm are atrocious.

I never said anything of the sort.

 

[glasshouse]

Rather ridiculous analogy, a doctor takes a lot more skill and training to become a doctor whereas any half wit could farm, infact being a half wit is probably what is required to become a farmer.

rubbish
A wife could run any business or do any job, how would her spouse be qualified to advise her unless he is trained in the same trade?
And yes i think being too intelligent handicaps some farmers who overthink things

 

[stewart]

rubbish
A wife could run any business or do any job, how would her spouse be qualified to advise her unless he is trained in the same trade?
And yes i think being too intelligent handicaps some farmers who overthink things

Depends on the trade, advising a qualified doctor on the purchase of an x ray machine (as per you example in a previous post), would require a level of expertise, advising your spouse on the purchase of a new tractor or which paddock to put the cows in would not take a lot of thought and if the decision subsequently turned out to be wrong it wouldn't have too much effect on farm business.

 

[glasshouse]

Depends on the trade, advising a qualified doctor on the purchase of an x ray machine (as per you example in a previous post), would require a level of expertise, advising your spouse on the purchase of a new tractor or which paddock to put the cows in would not take a lot of thought and if the decision subsequently turned out to be wrong it wouldn't have too much effect on farm business.

So farmers have no expertise regarding machinery and if they buy the wrong machine it wont matter?
FFs

 

[stewart]

So farmers have no expertise regarding machinery and if they buy the wrong machine it wont matter?
FFs

Not as much as someone getting fried in the wrong x ray machine, which is why your previous analogy was so ridiculous.

 

[glasshouse]

Not as much as someone getting fried in the wrong x ray machine, which is why your previous analogy was so ridiculous.

I just happened to pick that example out of the air, and its mo more ridiculous than asking a hairdresser what type of combine is most cost effective.

 

[DRC]

I just happened to pick that example out of the air, and its mo more ridiculous than asking a hairdresser what type of combine is most cost effective.

Your stereotyping that the wife has outside job , such as hairdresser or doctor, or even the farmers wife that tends the house, raises the children and puts your tea on the table. I wouldn’t feel comfortable spending our joint money as equal partners , without talking things over . My wife often comes up with a different approach or backs my idea, which gives me extra confidence in a purchase or way to do something .
Even when she worked off farm for 15 years, the decisions still affected us both financially.

 

[Agrispeed]

Someone who doesn't know the intricacies is probably still worth talking to - They can look at it from the outside in an impartial way, and look at things differently.

 

[Hooby Farmer]

Someone who doesn't know the intricacies is probably still worth talking to - They can look at it from the outside in an impartial way, and look at things differently.

I talk over my businesses every quarter with my uncle who lives in America, gets sent the years accounts every year too. Way better than any accountant. Im still romantic about my business where he is clinical and cold.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Your stereotyping that the wife has outside job , such as hairdresser or doctor, or even the farmers wife that tends the house, raises the children and puts your tea on the table. I wouldn’t feel comfortable spending our joint money as equal partners , without talking things over . My wife often comes up with a different approach or backs my idea, which gives me extra confidence in a purchase or way to do something .
Even when she worked off farm for 15 years, the decisions still affected us both financially.

And timewise, as well!

If I was "a busy fool", likely I'd be on my own, children have two parents, after all.
Again, a big part of the reason that things (if done at all) are best done simply and preferably without turning a key - my eldest boy is already showing the signs of making a cracking stockman, despite having fairly low confidence for a start, by gaw can he work a mob of bulls

I know it's easy to lament that generation Z are more interested in technology and sitting inside and often difficult to take on the farm, but these two lads are my afterlife.. so being as inclusive as possible means they may just decide they can have a bit of land, as well as a career outside the gate.

I certainly don't know many 8 year olds that can be sent out to pick some 'phleum pratense' - and know what to look for... or how to set up a handpiece properly for crutching, or why we should try to avoid recurring costs.

 

[glasshouse]

Your stereotyping that the wife has outside job , such as hairdresser or doctor, or even the farmers wife that tends the house, raises the children and puts your tea on the table. I wouldn’t feel comfortable spending our joint money as equal partners , without talking things over . My wife often comes up with a different approach or backs my idea, which gives me extra confidence in a purchase or way to do something .
Even when she worked off farm for 15 years, the decisions still affected us both financially.

I am not stereotyping anything, theres no harm in discussing things with your better half, but the final decision has to be yours, as farmers are supposed to know their business.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Someone who doesn't know the intricacies is probably still worth talking to - They can look at it from the outside in an impartial way, and look at things differently.

Dispassionate observations almost always make better criticism.
In my experience other farmers only want to know the numbers, then shut up after I tell them.

Outsiders see the "whole" far more easily, rather than losing sight of the whole whilst pulling all the little pieces apart..

 

[Global ovine]

Now that my direct farming days are over, I am regularly sitting in front of farmer groups or on several private farming boards. From these experiences several things in the above discussion come to mind:

• Farm field days and discussion group meetings usually see both spouses present with women often asking the most important questions. This gender mix difference appears very diverse when comparing the UK and NZ, where I have often only spoken to male groups in the UK. Generally women develop a very good understanding of finances and performance figures. Most of the time women see the big picture first, knowing where money is best spent for the best returns, be it in system changes or genetics required. Marrying the right woman is extremely important. Men who keep their business from their wife are more at risk to mental health problems and poor outcomes.
  
• Farmers with outside industry experience are often fast adopters of new and superior technologies that improve profit and release time. Less influenced by preconceived ideas.
  
• Larger farming businesses which employ a board for major decision making make the best progress in achieving goals, both in long term strategies and on a season basis. They keep the managing party on the course agreed previously. Farming is a long game for most operators, there is only so much room for some specialist traders.
  
• Beef and lamb NZ did a survey almost a decade ago looking at what was the driving forces between the quintile groups on profitability/ha and SU and Return on Investment etc. Over 85% of the top 20% employed an advisor mainly as a sounding board and also for some technical help, whereas the two middle groups used advisors on less than 20% of farms. Top performers don't want to miss an opportunity, bottom groupers don't recognise opportunities. I haven't seen exemptions to these findings.

If the farming business climate of the UK changes substantially in the not too distant future, farming couples and families will need very good dialogue to adjust to the new world they find themselves working in. Any farmer who thinks he can keep it to himself, not inform the others affected so they too have an understanding of the situation and can often offer some new thoughts, only places himself and his family in a bad place. It didn't work for them in NZ 30 years ago so why let history repeat.

 

[stewart]

I am not stereotyping anything, theres no harm in discussing things with your better half, but the final decision has to be yours, as farmers are supposed to know their business.

Therin lies the problem, many don't.