Fed up

[Cowabunga]

Are you detecting more support to leave?
.

Yes, I'm afraid it is quite likely, though not certain yet, that the vote will be marginally in favour of exit. That's just my feeling from just observing people. Nothing scientific.

I also believe that turnout will be extremely high, although this might just favour the pro-EU side on the day.

 

[wanton dwarf]

A small point of history - George Soros did indeed make a billion when the pound fell out of the ERM in 1992, but he wasn't buying pounds from the BoE and then selling them back to them!

My bad I guess, I remember a TV program from about 2 decades ago explaining what happened. Either bad memory or bad production. Either way John Major got me in a sack of cack...

 

[Grassman]

Yes, I'm afraid it is quite likely, though not certain yet, that the vote will be marginally in favour of exit. That's just my feeling from just observing people. Nothing scientific.

I also believe that turnout will be extremely high, although this might just favour the pro-EU side on the day.

I think when it comes to ticking the box a lot will take the safe route and vote in even though they are talking voting out at the moment.

 

[Cowabunga]

Take a trip to the back roads of Lancashire!! the back roads there are nothing short of a disgrace and nearly undrivable in anything other than a 4x4 or a tractor, the roads in Devon aren't much better and some of the pot holes on A roads are 3/4 inch deep but seen as acceptable!

Ref the social security, the problem and anger is that these immigrants walk into the UK and are entitled to every benefit/ a house etc going when they have never paid in yet UK people that have worked for decades/ paid taxes etc are not entited to these benefits/ houses etc.

The immigrants that work and pay taxes in the UK balance out the claimants. I do concede that they collectively put a strain on the NHS and also schools and other services in some areas.
Its a question of the balance of benefits and problems. Being in the EU has and is, on balance, a very good thing for the UK and Europe as a whole. I am NOT a nationalist but am an Internationalsist. Nationalism benefits nobody but a small elite group wherever it prevails. Indeed nationalism is almost guaranteed to cause friction with neighbours and strife if not conflict wherever it rears its ugly head.

 

[wanton dwarf]

The immigrants that work and pay taxes in the UK balance out the claimants. I do concede that they collectively put a strain on the NHS and also schools and other services in some areas.
Its a question of the balance of benefits and problems. Being in the EU has and is, on balance, a very good thing for the UK and Europe as a whole. I am NOT a nationalist but am an Internationalsist. Nationalism benefits nobody but a small elite group wherever it prevails. Indeed nationalism is almost guaranteed to cause friction with neighbours and strife if not conflict wherever it rears its ugly head.

A house costs a LOT of money. Utilities cost a lot of money.

No immigrant is going to pay off that investment for 25+ years and then there is the environmental cost of reservoirs etc.

Then on a work front any immigrant which does not understand the UK culture and language is going to make mistakes which means they will not work and produce as much money as an average UK employee.

These so called reports are just rubber stamping landlords, many of them in the establishment, making £billions off the public via welfare payments from the UK tax payer.

It's a con.

Nationalism... so why is there no castigation of the SNP then ?

 

[Cowabunga]

A house costs a LOT of money. Utilities cost a lot of money.

No immigrant is going to pay off that investment for 25+ years and then there is the environmental cost of reservoirs etc.

Then on a work front any immigrant which does not understand the UK culture and language is going to make mistakes which means they will not work and produce as much money as an average UK employee.

These so called reports are just rubber stamping landlords, many of them in the establishment, making £billions off the public via welfare payments from the UK tax payer.

It's a con.

Nationalism... so why is there no castigation of the SNP then ?

Since you are so confident about the superiority of the British worker, I fail to see why you are the least it worried about competition from foreign workers


There is castigation and opposition to the SNP, both within and without Scotland of course.

You just wait. When oil again reaches $100+ and if the UK votes out of the EU, the Scots will vote for a Sexit before you know it, to join the EU for themselves. You can't oppose Scottish Nationalism and its exit from the UK while practicing English Nationalism and exiting from the EU with the next breath. That's just MASSIVE hypocrisy of the worse kind and the Scottish Nationalists are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect already.

 

[wanton dwarf]

Since you are so confident about the superiority of the British worker, I fail to see why you are the least it worried about competition from foreign workers


There is castigation and opposition to the SNP, both within and without Scotland of course.

You just wait. When oil again reaches $100+ and if the UK votes out of the EU, the Scots will vote for a Sexit before you know it, to join the EU for themselves. You can't oppose Scottish Nationalism and its exit from the UK while practicing English Nationalism and exiting from the EU with the next breath. That's just MASSIVE hypocrisy of the worse kind and the Scottish Nationalists are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect already.

I'm pointing out the facts of working as a team. Communication, without it you don't know what you are doing. Having 101 languages in a work force doesn't bode well for doing anything in the same place.

The UK conquered the 2/3rds of the world, helped create the industrial revolution and brought democracy to many parts of the world. With lots of benefits. I have great faith in UK people because we have been, are and can be great.

If Scotland wants to leave it is their democratic right, I wont stop them. I like Scottish people and IMHO we share a historic bond as a people but if they want to go their own path - fine.

 

[Cowabunga]

I'm pointing out the facts of working as a team. Communication, without it you don't know what you are doing. Having 101 languages in a work force doesn't bode well for doing anything in the same place.

The UK conquered the 2/3rds of the world, helped create the industrial revolution and brought democracy to many parts of the world. With lots of benefits. I have great faith in UK people because we have been, are and can be great.

If Scotland wants to leave it is their democratic right, I wont stop them. I like Scottish people and IMHO we share a historic bond as a people but if they want to go their own path - fine.

"The UK conquered the 2/3rds of the world"

Says it all really doesn't it. Well I've got news for you, we ain't got it no more and that's nothing to do with the EU.

If you don't want to employ foreign workers, do as I do and don't. Its that simple.
I don't think the Scottish people that want to Sexit, reciprocate your view. You find that hard to believe? That's partly the problem. You could find that in no time at all you will not have a UK to be part of, let alone be a part of Europe. You are certainly facilitating the prospect.

Follow this link and translate it to see in some small way how others see you, the English. This is a parody of course and not a view I share, not being in the least bit nationalist.



http://caniadur.info/wici/Cwyngan_y_Sais
Not sure whether it makes any sense after translation.

 

[baabaa]

At the moment there is an open border between North and The Republic, and indeed between Eire and the mainland UK.
Given a bit of extreme violence in the area coupled with the exit of the UK from the EU, then of course there would be an adverse effect on ongoing peace in the province, or at least the attitude both sides of a once-more closed and secured border with immigration and security checks, on everyone passing either way.

Some Brexit supporters would say it is 'securing our borders', but they haven't quite thought through all the implications and disadvantages of doing so, being blinded by the threat of millions of Turks swamping our island paradise. Older people and people who don't travel much, tend to be influenced more by 'securing our borders' than the younger generation who value freedom and the ability to travel and work anywhere in the EU more.

there was never a closed secured border between both parts of ireland
and there never will be

 

[alex04w]

A lot of Brexit enthusiasts, who will probably win the vote, are in for one hell of a shock at both the short and long term implications of exit. Not only will the Pound fall, but the shock and disruption will infect the Euro zone as well, so the Euro is likely to freefall along with the Pound. There will be medium term turmoil in Europe as other regions will also wish to exit, because there are not just 'Little Englanders' but 'Little Catalans', 'Little People' all over Europe who will do their damnedest to break the whole unifying structure down. Down to what? Down to probable chaos and political unrest.

You don't know what you are unleashing. Its not going to be anything like a tea party and the EU will wish to punish the UK severely for leaving if only to discourage those others. If it does break up, which it might if we vote out as looks likely, then the seriously vicious rivalries will come to the fore.

Do you not see a huge contradiction in your post?

You are in favour of the EU, therefore believe it is working well, yet you say that one of the 28 nations leaving will cause others to leave, bring on serious rivalries lead to chaos and unrest.... (world war three, the failure of the NI peace process, etc if you believe past and present PMs).

If the EU is so great, why would other want to leave - is it because they see it is not great, is not working and is holding back their economies as well?

If the EU is so great, where are their rivalries - is it because the EU cannot be all things to all people and therefore is clearly working against the best interests of some?

If the EU is so great, why would their be chaos if one leave - it is because we are the cash cow being bled dry to give our competitors the chance to get one over on us using our money and will descend into anarchy when the cash tap is turned off?

If the EU is so great, why would the euro fall - unless the whole EU is propped up on our successful economy outside the Euro and the markets will see it for what it is (a failed idea holding back many EU economies) if we leave?

If the EU is so great, why would they wish to punish the UK for leaving - unless of course they do not have our best interests at heart? Nothing worst than an someone who stalks their ex for walking out on the domestic abuse (thereby proving they were right to have walked out in the first place).

 

[alex04w]

If you don't want to employ foreign workers, do as I do and don't. Its that simple.

Sorry, but that is illegal - fair employments laws, equality laws, EU legislation on free movement, employment, etc. If you have advertised a vacancy and a foreigner applies, they you HAVE to consider them. You can then be sued if you do not employ them simple because they are foreign.

 

[arcobob]

At the moment there is an open border between North and The Republic, and indeed between Eire and the mainland UK.
Given a bit of extreme violence in the area coupled with the exit of the UK from the EU, then of course there would be an adverse effect on ongoing peace in the province, or at least the attitude both sides of a once-more closed and secured border with immigration and security checks, on everyone passing either way.

Some Brexit supporters would say it is 'securing our borders', but they haven't quite thought through all the implications and disadvantages of doing so, being blinded by the threat of millions of Turks swamping our island paradise. Older people and people who don't travel much, tend to be influenced more by 'securing our borders' than the younger generation who value freedom and the ability to travel and work anywhere in the EU more.

Perhaps that is because older people remember that before the EU they still had freedom to travel. Nothing changed, they gave us an EU passport instead of a UK one and we still take it with us when we go on holiday. Freedom to work may be a different matter.

 

[lazy farmer]

i find all this deeply deeply depressing. From blaming politicians for our own mistakes to envoking a history that died with so many of our fellow countrymen in WW11. The Leaves campaign on this thread leaves me colder than cold. IT talks with bile about a country I don't recognise It seems to ignore legitimate concerns and forgets the relative prosperity we enjoy in spite of world economy struggling for growth for the last decade.
None of these issues are black and white stop pretending they will be. immigration will still be high, wages will still rise slowly the NHS will still be under strain.

 

[arcobob]

Do you not see a huge contradiction in your post?

You are in favour of the EU, therefore believe it is working well, yet you say that one of the 28 nations leaving will cause others to leave, bring on serious rivalries lead to chaos and unrest.... (world war three, the failure of the NI peace process, etc if you believe past and present PMs).

If the EU is so great, why would other want to leave - is it because they see it is not great, is not working and is holding back their economies as well?

If the EU is so great, where are their rivalries - is it because the EU cannot be all things to all people and therefore is clearly working against the best interests of some?

If the EU is so great, why would their be chaos if one leave - it is because we are the cash cow being bled dry to give our competitors the chance to get one over on us using our money and will descend into anarchy when the cash tap is turned off?

If the EU is so great, why would the euro fall - unless the whole EU is propped up on our successful economy outside the Euro and the markets will see it for what it is (a failed idea holding back many EU economies) if we leave?

If the EU is so great, why would they wish to punish the UK for leaving - unless of course they do not have our best interests at heart? Nothing worst than an someone who stalks their ex for walking out on the domestic abuse (thereby proving they were right to have walked out in the first place).

In a survey some time ago people around the world were asked to rate their standard of living and satisfaction with life in their own country. In the top twenty only two countries were in Europe. Guess who ----Switzerland and Norway. I wonder why.

 

[Danllan]

"The UK conquered the 2/3rds of the world"

Says it all really doesn't it. Well I've got news for you, we ain't got it no more and that's nothing to do with the EU.

If you don't want to employ foreign workers, do as I do and don't. Its that simple.
I don't think the Scottish people that want to Sexit, reciprocate your view. You find that hard to believe? That's partly the problem. You could find that in no time at all you will not have a UK to be part of, let alone be a part of Europe. You are certainly facilitating the prospect.

Follow this link and translate it to see in some small way how others see you, the English. This is a parody of course and not a view I share, not being in the least bit nationalist.



http://caniadur.info/wici/Cwyngan_y_Sais
Not sure whether it makes any sense after translation.

Hmm... there are loony Welsh Nat's of course - even in my own family - but the vast, vast majority of people around here (West Carms) think of themselves as Welsh and British and don't have much time for the Assembly.

If we do leave the EU I think there will be a lot of red faces when the world doesn't end, the UK doesn't break up and - after a short economic stutter - things gat back to normal.

By the way, despite the undeniable economic benefits of some immigration to the UK, we keep hearing from the Remain lobby that EU migration benefits us enormously because it costs less then it give i.e. more revenue and less benefit spending, and at first sight that does look to be the case.

But... what are not included in the +/- stats they offer, because they are not 'benefits' per se, are the medical costs (partly because many - most?- NHS trusts etc. don't record EU nationals differently, only non-EU ones) and, very importantly, education costs. It costs about £30k p.a. to educate a non-native language child, that's 500% of the budget per native British child.

This might not be, in fact would not be, a great problem for an extra child here or there. But when there are, say, just seven or eight in a local primary school, it means that a lot or perhaps most of that school's budget may end up being spent on them. Look at a typically sized secondary school which - being more urban - might have thirty or forty in some towns, and the budget for them alone becomes >£1M p.a..

And... when you look at many towns / cities - and the number is growing - you'll find authorities who have hundreds, sometimes thousands of these children to educate = tens of millions, and nationally many hundreds of millions if not even £billions. And there will be fewer places for British children. And this doesn't find its way in to the Remain sides calculations, odd isn't it...?

 

[arcobob]

The immigrants that work and pay taxes in the UK balance out the claimants. I do concede that they collectively put a strain on the NHS and also schools and other services in some areas.
Its a question of the balance of benefits and problems. Being in the EU has and is, on balance, a very good thing for the UK and Europe as a whole. I am NOT a nationalist but am an Internationalsist. Nationalism benefits nobody but a small elite group wherever it prevails. Indeed nationalism is almost guaranteed to cause friction with neighbours and strife if not conflict wherever it rears its ugly head.

Nationalism rears its ugly head when people despair that they are trapped in a situation where they have no control and are forced into an artificial one-size--fits -all collaboration. The blind ignorance of Euro federalists has led to a backlash . Many feel that we have passed the point of no return.

 

[lazy farmer]

In a survey some time ago people around the world were asked to rate their standard of living and satisfaction with life in their own country. In the top twenty only two countries were in Europe. Guess who ----Switzerland and Norway. I wonder why.

Because they are small and have Unique selling points oil and finance, nothing is black and white stop pretending it is.

 

[alex04w]

Because they are small and have Unique selling points oil and finance, nothing is black and white stop pretending it is.

And what size is the UK (smallish), what does the UK have in abundance (oil), what is the City of London famed for (finance).

You make an excellent argument for Leave. I trust you will be voting that way!!

 

[lazy farmer]

And what size is the UK (smallish), what does the UK have in abundance (oil), what is the City of London famed for (finance).

You make an excellent argument for Leave. I trust you will be voting that way!!

not relative to our population size. please don't twist my words.
Unlike most on here I will keep my voting intentions to myself.
Though not entirely unrelated my respect for the Duck and the dignity he has shown under extreme provocation is growing. Having been bullied it always leaves a bad taste when you see it potentially happening to someone else not that I think he could be bullied!

 

[arcobob]

Because they are small and have Unique selling points oil and finance, nothing is black and white stop pretending it is.

Perhaps they also have control over their own destiny.