Feeding chopped straw into AD plant

[Jim Pace]

have raised this before, but is anyone feeding chopped straw into their AD plant and if so any idea of gas yield per tonne of dry matter?

How are people finding their maize yields. Thinks are going well in Kent for us. Planting was v dry but from July we had plenty of rain. Yields would have probably been higher if we had higher temperatures and more sun in August.

 

[Paul E]

Absolutely criminal putting straw or any other animal feed into AD.
I'm sure you'd get paid to take it away AFTER it's been through the animal, but livestock farmers in non arable areas will be forced to pay through the nose for straw this year, and some people are putting it in AD ??!!
FFS.
It's bad enough turning the chopper on the combine on, but to bale it and then pee it away ?
You sir, are contemptable.

 

[wasted years]

Yes, how dare farmers find better uses for what they produce and react to market forces.

 

[Jim Pace]

Absolutely criminal putting straw or any other animal feed into AD.
I'm sure you'd get paid to take it away AFTER it's been through the animal, but livestock farmers in non arable areas will be forced to pay through the nose for straw this year, and some people are putting it in AD ??!!
FFS.
It's bad enough turning the chopper on the combine on, but to bale it and then pee it away ?
You sir, are contemptable.

 

[Jim Pace]

We have to be business like. Increasingly we are going to have to adapt or fade away as direct farming subsidies decline. Lots of straw goes into biomass boiler from industrial scale to farm scale. It's a subsidised use, just like beef farming but it is one that makes a profit. We are not in a livestock area so ther is lots of straw to be had. Until this year we only ever chopped it, as do most of our neighbours. Perhaps you have a point in livestock areas, but the wheel keeps turning, beef farming feels difficult for all but the most efficient post brexit and with free trade deals with the likes of Argentina, USA and Australia.

 

[thesilentone]

We have short memories, not long ago most of the SE of the UK was covered in black soot from the fall-out of burning straw.

Don't shout at the AD men for wanting to use what is a by-product, get the choppers of the back of combines !!

As it is, currently straw is difficult to digest, therefore not ideal for AD. in addition with small quantities, a shredder, hammer mill, extruder or other form of pre-treatment is required. With larger quantities, new technology is being used to break down the lignin, but its costly, therefore scale is required.

 

[Paul E]

I'm not going to get embroiled here, somehow I should have known an arable farmer wouldn't get the point I was making.

It's inherently wrong to waste a good product like straw into AD plant. Any year, especially this year when it is just not about.
(or maize silage for that matter)
I'm sure you won't appreciate that because straw is not available the thousands of cows and sheep housed in the wet west and frozen north will have to be kept in less than adequate conditions.
But thats OK by your reckoning.
I fully understand the arguement for chopping behind the combine, but disagree with it in most circumstances, and when SE england was covered in soot was still a waste of straw even then.
Exactly how straw is referred to as a "By product" is frustrating to say the least, when it is worth, what, equally as much per acre, sorry hectare as the grain?
I also fully appreciate that some people will want to find "better uses" for their product, but what is better
a) paid for up front for livestock use (Doesn't matter if you're not in a livestock area as it gets transported to them)
b) bad digestion and low gas output, that is if the little twits haven't set fire to your stack in the meantime?
I mean, is it OK to be only 60% self sufficient in food as long as you've all got plenty of electric to go on twitter with?
But by all means chase the AD sub while it is there as we all know it won't be for long, but do the decent thing, and put a food product through the animal first.
That way you win, I win, and the animal wins.

 

[sjt01]

I'm not going to get embroiled here, somehow I should have known an arable farmer wouldn't get the point I was making.

It's inherently wrong to waste a good product like straw into AD plant. Any year, especially this year when it is just not about.
(or maize silage for that matter)
.

Persuade the great British public that food is more valuable than energy, then you will have an answer. Before we put our AD plant in, we had wood chip boilers (before the days of RHI and subsidies). It was cost effective to burn wheat as a substitute for oil, although we never did. We got cost effective wood chip, but if we burnt wheat it would have been worth 50% more than selling it for feed. Go figure!

 

[ollie989898]

It is not absolutely criminal to put anything into an AD plant.

The straw has come from the soil, and belongs back there. Removing it causes a deleterious effect on soil nutrient reserves.

There are plenty of alternatives to straw for animal bedding. A lot of farms now use very little.

 

[warksfarmer]

Absolutely criminal putting straw or any other animal feed into AD.
I'm sure you'd get paid to take it away AFTER it's been through the animal, but livestock farmers in non arable areas will be forced to pay through the nose for straw this year, and some people are putting it in AD ??!!
FFS.
It's bad enough turning the chopper on the combine on, but to bale it and then pee it away ?
You sir, are contemptable.

Any livestock farmer if they want can go and rent land, grow the crop to get their precious straw.

Straw is extremely valuable within the renewable sector so the livestock boys can grow their own from now onwards.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Straw is extremely valuable within the renewable sector

Shhh!

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Im hoping the eventual good thing that will come from this is that arable farmers will look at straw as a valuable crop along with the grain and not just toilet paper, should I say some, a lot already treat it as such , anyway sorry to detract from your topic

 

[T Hectares]

I thought that the biggest market for straw in the east was into the power stations ??

It really annoys when livestock farmers say " it's worth as much as grain why don't you bale it "
Beacause it's worth about 10% per tonne of the value of Milling wheat or malting barley off the field in the swath and less than half yield, if I want to make more from it I need to invest considerable ammounts of money to store it into the winter and then run the risk of it being a dry winter and getting left with it.

If I bale straw I have to replace the nutrients and lost organic matter, and can lose yield from soil damage or like a few around me, left with it in the swath...

I dare say if I sold straw to an AD plant it will have a clear value which will be agreed, paid and all the straw collected.

If I stored it myself I could have the market and demand fall away from me due to the weather and make no money and / or get left with a carry over of straw.

Straw is a by product to an arable farmer in an arable area, it's a different story if it can be used on a muck for straw deal, in which case it gets turned into a valuable commodity, selling it is a mugs game...

 

[Wastexprt]

Exactly how straw is referred to as a "By product" is frustrating to say the least, when it is worth, what, equally as much per acre, sorry hectare as the grain?

By product? The Environment Agency view it as a waste, no matter how much justification for it being classed as a co-product you put forward

 

[Jim Pace]

I don't think that ther is such a thing as an EA view. Each regional office seems to find a way of taking its own interpretation of the rules. That said I have never heard it put forward that straw is a waste, and there are plenty of plants already feeding an element of straw where there is no waste permit. In the south east I know that the EA doe not view it as requiring a permit, and I think the same has to be the case in East Anglia given what is going on. If you have been told otherwise and it is an issue for you I would get the REA or another similar body that you may be a member of to raise it and educate the EA officer who has advised you. They are wrong

 

[Christoph1945]

A most interesting thread; providing a great deal of food for thought!

 

[Wastexprt]

I don't think that ther is such a thing as an EA view. Each regional office seems to find a way of taking its own interpretation of the rules. That said I have never heard it put forward that straw is a waste, and there are plenty of plants already feeding an element of straw where there is no waste permit. In the south east I know that the EA doe not view it as requiring a permit, and I think the same has to be the case in East Anglia given what is going on. If you have been told otherwise and it is an issue for you I would get the REA or another similar body that you may be a member of to raise it and educate the EA officer who has advised you. They are wrong

I must admit when I was told at a meeting by a senior PPC officer that all the straw going in to a straw burning plant was waste it took the wind out of our sails. I was similarly surprised when the plants in question had straw stated as a waste in their IED permits, but not miscanthus.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Absolutely criminal putting straw or any other animal feed into AD.
I'm sure you'd get paid to take it away AFTER it's been through the animal, but livestock farmers in non arable areas will be forced to pay through the nose for straw this year, and some people are putting it in AD ??!!
FFS.
It's bad enough turning the chopper on the combine on, but to bale it and then pee it away ?
You sir, are contemptable.

Heaven forbid the owner of the straw should be able to make up his own mind as to what to do with as he pleases!!

 

[thesilentone]

There are many things classed as waste (like cattle manure), however the confusion may be regarding what permit you require.

On most farms using their own agricultural waste material, an exemption permit will be issued. However should that farm start to ' import ' waste, then of course an exemption will not suffice.

 

[Will Wilson]

I was on a plant today chopping waste (i.e wet top bales) straw and blowing it onto the maize silage asthey were clamping. They were using a trailed straw bedder to chop and blow the straw.

It was interesting to see, I suppose the straw breaks down if its only being used in low volumes.

Perhaps worth a go in the future? Though no indication of cost benefit.

Will