fence clearing with a flame gun

[Generally01]

how is the use of a chemical fossil fuel any more bio than using a chemical herbicide?

Herbicides don't drift away in the atmosphere like burnt fossil fuel.
Herbicides float around in waterways (river,creek,stream, ditch,ocean) killing and polluting anything they come in contact with including whole ocean ecosystems, as it appears that the water runoff from a whole country reachess the same spot in the ocean, if that country is know to use herbicides it will leave an enormous dead zone.

 

[farmerm]

Herbicides don't drift away in the atmosphere like burnt fossil fuel.
Herbicides float around in waterways (river,creek,stream, ditch,ocean) killing and polluting anything they come in contact with including whole ocean ecosystems, as it appears that the water runoff from a whole country reachess the same spot in the ocean, if that country is know to use herbicides it will leave an enormous dead zone.

if you say so. I would like to see that spot in the ocean, it must be an amazing site to see all the runoff water stacked high in one spot.

 

[PuG]

Its not just a question of Greg saying but various scientific led environmental studies over the last few decades who have extensive analytical data on the subject. No offense but I think they know considerably more on the subject, try doing some googling. Just to add to that, heavy metal populations in the fish shelves like mercury etc so its multi industry that's destroying the environment.

Concerns over use of glyphosate-based herbicides and risks associated with exposures: a consensus statement - Environmental Health

The broad-spectrum herbicide glyphosate (common trade name “Roundup”) was first sold to farmers in 1974. Since the late 1970s, the volume of glyphosate-based herbicides (GBHs) applied has increased approximately 100-fold. Further increases in the volume applied are likely due to more and higher...

ehjournal.biomedcentral.com

Toxicity of Herbicides: Impact on Aquatic and Soil Biota and Human Health

Open access peer-reviewed chapter

www.intechopen.com

Effects of Fungicide and Herbicide Chemical Exposure on Apis and Non-Apis Bees in Agricultural Landscape

Fungicide and herbicide chemistries are commonly applied in agricultural production systems and other agricultural landscapes during flowering periods, which are concurrent with the timing of bee-dependent pollination services in many plant species. As a result, bees can be exposed to these...

www.frontiersin.org

Environmental and health effects of the herbicide glyphosate | Request PDF

Request PDF | Environmental and health effects of the herbicide glyphosate | The herbicide glyphosate, N-(phosphonomethyl) glycine, has been used extensively in the past 40 years, under the assumption that side effects were... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Herbicide Impact on Seagrass Communities

Open access peer-reviewed chapter

www.intechopen.com

Herbicide Persistence in Seawater Simulation Experiments

Herbicides are detected year-round in marine waters, including those of the World Heritage listed Great Barrier Reef (GBR). The few previous studies that have investigated herbicide persistence in seawater generally reported half-lives in the order of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You've tried to make two smart replies on this thread. Greg is just trying to be helpful.

 

[Generally01]

if you say so. I would like to see that spot in the ocean, it must be an amazing site to see all the runoff water stacked high in one spot.

It reaches the ocean at the same place but it doesn't stay there but a lot/most of the nutrients/chemicals stay there.

 

[farmerm]

It reaches the ocean at the same place but it doesn't stay there but a lot/most of the nutrients/chemicals stay there.

Plastic yes, they accumulate in the great garbage patch. My understanding of fluid mechanics would be that dissolved nutrients and chemicals disperse in liquids rather than concentrating. Agriculture is only one of many sources of chemicals and nutrients that enter the oceans.

 

[Lincsman]

Dont tell cwis packham

If only we could straw burn now... no need to go to the field... kids lit it!

 

[Generally01]

Plastic yes, they accumulate in the great garbage patch. My understanding of fluid mechanics would be that dissolved nutrients and chemicals disperse in liquids rather than concentrating. Agriculture is only one of many sources of chemicals and nutrients that enter the oceans.

But shouldn't we as farmers eliminate as much chemical as possible after all we grow food something that should not be toxic!

 

[farmerm]

But shouldn't we as farmers eliminate as much chemical as possible after all we grow food something that should not be toxic!

Use as little as possible and as much as necessary.

 

[Generally01]

Use as little as possible and as much as necessary.

Because none is a necessity.

 

[farmerm]

Because none is a necessity.

Maybe, depends what people want to eat and more importantly what they are willing to pay...

 

[Generally01]

Maybe, depends what people want to eat and more importantly what they are willing to pay...

Very true! i guess i never really thought of it that way, to an extent the puplic does decide on how we do things. if they would insist on proper food production, instead of being gullible and eating the cheapest food around. then again there is a big and growing market for non-gmo products, grass-fed beef....... if u know how to connect with them..... some will even be willing to pay the extra production costs.
Also i'm just gonna say that a good organic/bio/non-gmo system should have much cheaper production costs, its the switching farming methods that really drains the pocketbook, partly because we start doubting ourselves.
Sorry if i got longwinded.

 

[farmerm]

Very true! i guess i never really thought of it that way, to an extent the puplic does decide on how we do things. if they would insist on proper food production, instead of being gullible and eating the cheapest food around. then again there is a big and growing market for non-gmo products, grass-fed beef....... if u know how to connect with them..... some will even be willing to pay the extra production costs.
Also i'm just gonna say that a good organic/bio/non-gmo system should have much cheaper production costs, its the switching farming methods that really drains the pocketbook, partly because we start doubting ourselves.
Sorry if i got longwinded.

We have ventured complete off topic Lower costs is only one side of the equation, it is very difficult to lower costs without also lowering output. I know if I cut out fertiliser and chemicals in our arable production I would cut my costs by £20K but cut my output by £40K at conventional commodity vales... Look at the number of people who are struggling to feed their kids, even with the cheapest food around and then tell me that growers producing lower quantities of more expensive food is really the most ethical option. There are few grass only fed cattle and a limited market willing to pay the extra production costs. Niche markets do not solve the wider problems, we need solutions that provide mass market food produced with minimal environmental harm.

 

[Highland Mule]

Last time I dug into this, output from organic was seven times less on an acreage basis and much worse than that on an input basis. Whilst no energy was being used to maks and spread chemicals, much more was being used at other points in the lifecycle, to the extent that organic if universal would not be enough to supply the world's needs and was really just a rich person's folly. Has that changed at all?

The idea of using many kilojoules of energy to burn weed leaves sounds criminal to me, against a careful application of a small amount of readily degraded chemical poison. Imagining just the pollution from the propane manufacturing process is making me feel uneasy about the whole thing.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Haven't used a flamethrower for the purpose @PuG but have seen plenty of fenceline burns in the past - generally grassland where grass is mowed up to the fence (just like the cultivated boundary in stubble-burning times) and then set the dry material alight


.. you just have to judge the burn to be quick enough to get the grass/weeds without cooking the posts/wire/netting and be prepared to replace the odd plastic insulator etc. and practice elsewhere to get a feel for the flammability of the vegetation.

It's similar to the fuel-reduction burns that seem to kept being forgotten about, which then lead to large wildfires, if done well it is very effective indeed.

 

[Generally01]

Last time I dug into this, output from organic was seven times less on an acreage basis and much worse than that on an input basis. Whilst no energy was being used to maks and spread chemicals, much more was being used at other points in the lifecycle, to the extent that organic if universal would not be enough to supply the world's needs and was really just a rich person's folly. Has that changed at all?

I know this is still kinda off topic and sorry for that, but this is a huge subject and finds its way into almost half of the topics in this forum. i was just wondering what u were growing in a organic system vs a conventional chemical farm.

 

[Veryfruity]

I’ve got a gas flame gun, with a 13 kg bottle in a backpack. I tried between rows of veg crops. It’s a lot of work for what it does. You are more than welcome to borrow it to give it a try.

The paraffin ones are better IIRC, we used to burn strawberry fields off after harvest in the 80s, but you will struggle to find the same fuel properties. French paraffin is called ´pétrole and is not as hot, adding about 10% white spirit makes it similar.

The burning laws are strict I think it wouldn’t be allowed between 14/4 to mid October
. http://www.aude.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/depliant_emploidufeu_web_cle531b86.pdf

 

[Highland Mule]

I know this is still kinda off topic and sorry for that, but this is a huge subject and finds its way into almost half of the topics in this forum. i was just wondering what u were growing in a organic system vs a conventional chemical farm.

It wasn’t me growing anything - I just was asking the questions of others.