Fencing posts

[Agrispeed]

There has already been a polite reminder that this thread is about treated timber, and to confine discussion about clipex to the clipex thread.

I think that is a bit unfair - Using Clipex was worth mentioning IMO, as it is an alternative and discussions over cost comparisons are interesting. If you limited what people can answer in a thread it would be very quiet and you would never get an alternative approach, or broaden your knowledge.

However, someone constantly shouting about something is a bit tedious... I suspect it actually puts a lot of people off it.

 

[Grassman]

It's not cheap stuff, so my suggestion would be, if you're going to the hassle of drying posts and standing/draining in tubs, you might as well pay a bit more and use creosote.
If you work the full cost out of doing that, you might as well buy pressure treated redwood posts from F&F.

I won't be buying any more Tuffdip anyway.

http://www.tuffdip.com/prices.php
At £160 Inc vat delivered it seems extremely expensive for 25 litres of watery bitumen.
It says 25 litres will do 400 posts but I can't see how. It would have to be some kind of narrow tube over 2 ft tall which you half fill with liquid. So really you need more than 25 litres to in hand to get the job done.
I assume the trade price is substantiality cheaper?

 

[ollie989898]

Can I ask you fencing guys, what exactly have they banned or stopped using which means posts rot so fast then?

What active ingredient was used prior to whatever happened to make fence posts die so fast?

I thought farmers and contractor could buy creosote and so were basically unaffected by the problem? Surely mainstream timber companies are still using the 'real deal' product rather than anything else?

 

[ARW]

Can I ask you fencing guys, what exactly have they banned or stopped using which means posts rot so fast then?

What active ingredient was used prior to whatever happened to make fence posts die so fast?

I thought farmers and contractor could buy creosote and so were basically unaffected by the problem? Surely mainstream timber companies are still using the 'real deal' product rather than anything else?

Arsenic was banned from tanalising in 2004, it's all on google
Some firms supply creosote posts but the will call them creo posts, and it's actually an oil based tan
Not many actually do the real coal tar creosote because it cuts out selling to the townies and non trade custom.
Long story short, anything that's any good and does the best job but is harmful gets banned immediately, leaving us having to use shite that's substandard created and licensed by a jobworth.

 

[james ds]

Can I ask you fencing guys, what exactly have they banned or stopped using which means posts rot so fast then?

What active ingredient was used prior to whatever happened to make fence posts die so fast?

I thought farmers and contractor could buy creosote and so were basically unaffected by the problem? Surely mainstream timber companies are still using the 'real deal' product rather than anything else?

I think a good bit of the problem here is the new varieties of trees are developed to grow quicker , yielding more timber but it's a lot softer , if you count the number of rings in the top of the stake it shows how fast it has grown , I've seen 12" end posts with only 11 rings in them , they should have 30 rings . That's why the timber from northern countries or Eastern European countries is proving to last longer than home grown timber .

 

[joe soapy]

Old creosote would soak into wood just like diesel and preserve wood and the iron fittings on gates etc.
Modern creosote doesent appear to penetrate in anything like the same way.

Where the timber is grown can also make a big difference to life, Oak or larch grown here is hopeless,
go 10 miles away and it lasts a lifetime

 

[wr.]

I had two barrels of Mark's (F&F) creosote and found that timber soaks it up much more than a barrel of "creosote" I had from another source. F&F creosote smelt like creosote. The other smelt altogether different.

 

[Fencemaster]

View attachment 448306
All pushing incised timber

Look, as you can see from other people posting on this site their is a serious problem with timber fencing. Apart from the cost of repeatedly having to replace it, there is the labour costs, the replacing of the wire, as well of the time element..
I appreciate that there are many thoughts on the reasons fencing is prematurely failing! the truth is there is only one!! You Are Using The Wrong Timber!
I can assure you that the posts you have got are from a home-grown mill and will be 100% Spruce, if you take one of the posts, cut it in half and inspect it, you will see the treatment will not have penetrated 1mm into the post, now take a Redwood (Pine) post do the same procedure and you will see the treatment will have penetrated 100% of the sapwood.
The differences? the Spruce post will rot in 12-18 months, The Pine post will last a minimum 20 years.
The Spruce posts are not the good buy you thought they were!!
Tell your supplier you will only use UC4 treated Redwood posts in future, and your fencing nightmare will be a thing of the past

 

[Derrick Hughes]

View attachment 7388
Using these but no idea how long they last

 

[Lazy Eric]

We've just had to bite the bullet and go for Calders and grandage creosoted posts.

 

[honeyend]

Another bit of free advertising for your business not subject to regulation of false or exaggerated claims.

There has already been a polite reminder that this thread is about treated timber, and to confine discussion about clipex to the clipex thread.

In the last four years I have fenced fourteen acres on clay. There were some old post left from the previous owner, which were dipped and I bought for the rest the best quality wooden posts I could buy, you know the ones that are guaranteed for fifteen years.
Buying the posts was the easy bit, getting someone to come and put them in was the biggest hurdle. Most contractors want big jobs, we are only a smallholding, but we pay as soon as we get the bill, but they want to charge big money. Eventually I did find someone with his own kit but it took longer as he fitted it around other jobs , but he did turn up, some didn't even do that.
So four years later. The old posts, most have rotted a soil level. The new wooden post, best quality remember, no they have not yet rotted but no one mentions how brittle they are, so some have cracked, a wack from a stray tractor and they split. We also have problems because they are loose because of the clay heave. Also when you read the small print if you have drilled them and not treated the hole the warranty is invalid, mm.
Some we had to replace some posts, and yes we used Clipex. My husband can whack them in on his own, with no expensive equipment and as he has worked in an office all his life , no previous experience. They seem more stable from the clay heave and as I sit here looking out my window, my garden is fenced with Clipex with sheep wire for the sheep and the dogs, it less intrusive than the old post and rail which is rotten, wobbly and propped up with the odd bit of scaffolding.
So if you haven't got the kit and the man power to use good quality wooden posts for me the Clipex wins hands down. I do not know if they are going to last 20 years, but for ease of use and stability for us they win.
I suppose what ever sort of timber you use if it doesn't rot it splits and shrinks. My hardword field gate stopped looking good as soon as I stopped oiling it. The new wooden post and rail round the house looks smart, but will need treating every two years, which I have not the time or the inclination to do all the wooden field gates we have that are now bent and chewed or the rest of the wooden posts I have left.
If you can find them really old railway sleepers and telegraph poles are just about indestructible, our barns are made from 70 year old sleepers from when they closed the railway. The roof is like a colander but the woods ok.

 

[james ds]

View attachment 7388
Using these but no idea how long they last

They will do well to last 4-5 yrs , local grown timber by the rings on them.

 

[Willie adie]

A big problem is most folk wouldn't know difference between spruce pine and larch.

Now if there are traces of bark left I can tell what the species is having worked in the timber sector for a period of time.
And indeed I'd have larch over pine anyway you notice the difference when you put a staple in so try and get a look at the bark on the timber.

 

[David.]

We've just had to bite the bullet and go for Calders and grandage creosoted posts.

How are you finding them?
I've just started on mine which have been in shed for 12mths, and I have to say timber stock is not ower special
We snapped two bent ones banging them in, and the creosote does appear to be well soaked in though.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

They will do well to last 4-5 yrs , local grown timber by the rings on them.

They have a 15 year warranty

 

[james ds]

They have a 15 year warranty

Read the small print . I never seen a warranty payout on stakes yet. When you drive a nail into a stake the warranty ends .

 

[Willie adie]

A company up here . intact if was james Jones timber.
Advised me that if I cut a notch to for stay warranty void even if I treated wood with creosote.
Hammer staple in warranty void.
Hammer nail I warranty void.
You get the picture!

 

[james ds]

A company up here . intact if was james Jones timber.
Advised me that if I cut a notch to for stay warranty void even if I treated wood with creosote.
Hammer staple in warranty void.
Hammer nail I warranty void.
You get the picture!

The only time the warranty works is when you store them in a shed.

 

[Lazy Eric]

How are you finding them?
I've just started on mine which have been in shed for 12mths, and I have to say timber stock is not ower special
We snapped two bent ones banging them in, and the creosote does appear to be well soaked in though.

There good posts, better than something that rots in 5 years

 

[Fencemaster]

Look, as you can see from other people posting on this site their is a serious problem with timber fencing. Apart from the cost of repeatedly having to replace it, there is the labour costs, the replacing of the wire, as well of the time element..
I appreciate that there are many thoughts on the reasons fencing is prematurely failing! the truth is there is only one!! You Are Using The Wrong Timber!
I can assure you that the posts you have got are from a home-grown mill and will be 100% Spruce, if you take one of the posts, cut it in half and inspect it, you will see the treatment will not have penetrated 1mm into the post, now take a Redwood (Pine) post do the same procedure and you will see the treatment will have penetrated 100% of the sapwood.
The differences? the Spruce post will rot in 12-18 months, The Pine post will last a minimum 20 years.
The Spruce posts are not the good buy you thought they were!!
Tell your supplier you will only use UC4 treated Redwood posts in future, and your fencing nightmare will be a thing of the past

Hi My name is Brian Griffiths
I entered into conversations on this site some months ago regarding why fencing post are failing prematurely.
The simple reason is that the vast majority of timber going into fencing stakes is Spruce!. No matter what you do to this timber during the treatment cycle, you simply cannot treat Spruce!
The only softwood that can take treatment is Pine and it does not grow in commercial quantities in the UK 100% of Pine is imported!
You may be aware of companies now offering fencing stakes treated to UC4, To attain this the timber has to be Pine (Redwood) you then need to kiln dry the timber to a maximum of 28% moisture content , it then needs to go into a treatment tank under maximum pressure to attain full sapwood penetration. Only then can the post be stamped UC4.
A properly treated UC4 post will give you 25 years in-ground service life, why take risks for a few pence more when the cost or replacing a failed post far out-costs the using of a UC4 post in the first place.
For your information I now import and and sell to a selected group of farmers, posts produced from eucalyptus, Not only do you not have to treat the post, it will far exceed any treated softwood posts
life-span, (50 years plus!).
If you are genuinely interested, (or any other interested party) place a message here or email me and I will give you all the details you need to find independent evidence of this claim